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finally get to have a brookie adventure

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2012/2/15 16:35
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after work and finally getting a weekend to go to camp I hit up some old honey holes in the forest. Between the two of us we caught a dozen or so a piece and missed just as many. most fish were around 6" but we did get two pretty nice ones anyways heres some pics

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the honey hole :))

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the prettiest red dots I ever saw

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Posted on: 2013/7/30 0:15


Re: finally get to have a brookie adventure

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Beautiful fish, congrats.

Posted on: 2013/7/30 4:54
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Re: finally get to have a brookie adventure

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Looks like an awesome outing, thanks for sharing.

Posted on: 2013/7/30 6:59


Re: finally get to have a brookie adventure

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Cool.

Love those NW PA brookies. Allegheny drainage, right? Different spot patterns from Susquehanna drainage brookies.

Posted on: 2013/7/30 7:57


Re: finally get to have a brookie adventure

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Clarion trib pcray

Posted on: 2013/7/30 17:17


Re: finally get to have a brookie adventure

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That's interesting about spot patterns from different river systems. I just looked through a bunch of my brookie pics and in general I did notice a difference between the brookies I've gotten from the Allegheny watershed and the Susky watershed. Obviously there were exceptions, but overall I did notice a difference. Interesting.

Nice pics StarvinMarvin

Posted on: 2013/7/30 18:42


Re: finally get to have a brookie adventure

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Quote:

pcray1231 wrote:
Cool.

Love those NW PA brookies. Allegheny drainage, right? Different spot patterns from Susquehanna drainage brookies.


Could you describe the different spot patterns you are seeing?

Posted on: 2013/7/30 18:57


Re: finally get to have a brookie adventure
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Quote:

troutbert wrote:
Could you describe the different spot patterns you are seeing?


Agree - Inquiring minds want to know.

I don't fish the western PA watersheds.......but can't see anything on these fish that strikes me as different from the ones I get here in center state. I realize some things can be hard to describe......but if anyone can - it's Pcray.

Posted on: 2013/7/30 19:32


Re: finally get to have a brookie adventure

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The only thing I can notice is that in streams with a darker tea stain the lighter colors tend to be more orange idk I guess it is hard to explain

Posted on: 2013/7/30 22:44


Re: finally get to have a brookie adventure

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It is very interesting to me that there might be a difference in spot patterns of brookies from different drainages. I can't say I would be surprised if different subspecies evolved in the various drainages. There are something like 10 or more different subspecies of cutthroats, each residing in a different drainage. Cutthroats exhibit a difference in spot patterns between drainages. The Snake River cutthroats have a lot of very fine spots closer to the tail and an overall silvery color. The Yellowstone cuts have bigger more pronounced spots that are concentrated on the tail end of the fish but extend to the head and a yellowish color with red cheeks. I wonder if there has ever been a study on this topic.

Posted on: 2013/7/31 7:30


Re: finally get to have a brookie adventure

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The difference I noticed is the Allegheny brookies tend to have less and more spread out spots than the Susquahanna brookies, where the spots seem to be a little more dense. Just my overall observations from going through my pics, and keep in mind I have only fished a handful of brookie streams in the Susky watershed. If pcray would have never brought it up than I never would have noticed. Maybe it's just luck that the fish I took pics of seem to be different, or maybe there actually is a difference in spot patterns between watersheds.

Also I noticed browns tend to often vary from stream to stream.

Quote:

The only thing I can notice is that in streams with a darker tea stain the lighter colors tend to be more orange idk I guess it is hard to explain


Yeah, habitat has a lot to do with the coloration, but nothing with the spot patterns(at least I don't think). There's a stream that I've fished in the Allegheny watershed where most of the brookies look like the ones in your 2nd and third pics. The stream is well shaded, has plenty of deep(ish) plunge pools for them to hide in and the fish tend to be darker.

Posted on: 2013/7/31 7:54


Re: finally get to have a brookie adventure

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Heck yeah man! Sweet fishin! Thanks to the mighty PCRAY, I love seeing a wulff hanging out of a brookies mouth. Maybseriously have that tattooed on me at some point.

Posted on: 2013/7/31 8:42


Re: finally get to have a brookie adventure

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It is hard to explain, but I'll try. Like with stockie vs. wild, there are a number of indicators, and none of them are foolproof. And it is less reliable than the wild/stockie indicators. I can never say with any certainty, but based on a pic I'm right 80% of the time or so.

Also, as a disclaimer, much of this is highly stream specific. So differences I'm associating with Allegheny vs. Susquehanna/Delaware could be stream X vs. stream Y, and it's just coincidence that the ones I fish in each respective watershed have it. Also, I'm not claiming them to all be genetic. I suspect there's a mix of genetics and environment/diet which go into this. Also, I suspect there's differences between Susquehanna fish and Delaware fish as well, but don't have enough experience to identify them. Anyway, here goes.

1. Red spot pattern/placement. Allegheny fish very commonly have 2 distinct lines. Sometimes it's 3, sometimes it's a hodge podge (random placement). But never 1 line. And nomatter what the pattern, none of the spots seem to ever be below the lateral line on the fish.

Susquehanna fish commonly have 1 line. They sometimes also have 2 or 3, or a hodge podge. But when it's more than 1 line, there usually are a few red spots below the lateral line.

2. Dorsal fin - Allegheny fish have spots on the dorsal fin. They can be in a row, but there are spaces between them. Susquehanna/D fish it's usually bars, rather than distinct spots. I need to pay closer attention to this one, it's the one I'm least sure of, but would be the most concrete "tell" if it holds consistent. Unfortunately in most of my pics I smoosh down the dorsal, which makes them all look like bars, so my sample size is low. Mental note to self, get in habit of flaring the dorsal for pics.

3. Tail. On Allegheny fish, there are usually prominant dark markings along the upper and lower edges of the tail. On Susquehanna/D fish, the tail is either absent of markings, or if there are markings, it's more of an edge to edge arc. That ark is visible on Allegheny fish as well, but noticably fainter than the edge lines.

4. Yellow spots. On Allegheny fish, they tend to be most prominant on the back, and fade as you reach the lateral line. On Susquehanna/D fish, they stay prominant on the sides and sometimes encroach on the belly!

5. Shape. Generally, Allegheny fish are longer and more slender. This is very likely environmental, not genetic.

6. Color. Also likely environmental, not genetic. But Allegheny fish run dark, with that greenish black color. In Susquehanna fish, it's often a more brilliant green. The exception is tanic streams, where they often do run real dark.

Also, note, regarding #1. The hallmark of stockies is generally a whole lot of spots in a hodge podge, no particular pattern to it. I've always found it possible that the hodge podge in some wild fish is due to past stockie genetic influence. I don't have much evidence of it, and have no way to prove it. But it seems logical.

Posted on: 2013/7/31 10:14

Edited by pcray1231 on 2013/7/31 10:29:52
Edited by pcray1231 on 2013/7/31 11:10:22


Re: finally get to have a brookie adventure

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A more simple way of saying some of that, regarding #1 and #4, is that in Allegheny (wild) fish, patterning tends to end at the in the middle of the side. There can be patterns to the middle, but typically no yellow or red spots below middle.

In Susky fish, the lower flank often has yellow and/or red spots, farther down than Allegheny fish.

i.e. I'm not sure it's the lateral line itself, which is usually higher on the fish. It's the midpoint of the side. There are exceptions, but it's true on the vast majority of fish I've caught in each respective watershed.

Posted on: 2013/7/31 11:25


Re: finally get to have a brookie adventure

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Examples:

I realize the Susquehanna fish here is rather unique in coloration, exceptionally prominant yellow and dull reds. I picked it because you can sorta see the tail and dorsal at the same time, which seems to be a rarity in my pics (I usually squish the dorsal and let the tail hang for some reason). So my sample size for those two indicators is somewhat small.

Nonetheless, the middle of the side thing holds for every single picture I have from the two watersheds. Which is upwards of 30 photos from each.


Attach file:



jpg  Allegheny Fish.JPG (54.30 KB)
1353_51f93830e0e7f.jpg 645X484 px

jpg  Susquehanna1.JPG (41.11 KB)
1353_51f938985919b.jpg 645X484 px

Posted on: 2013/7/31 12:18



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