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Re: Wild Brook Trout

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2010/6/9 12:35
From down the block from the Letort.
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Troutbert, give us a list of native brookie streams, the major ones or the ones you feel are most vulnerable, that are currently being stocked over by the PFBC and/or the coop hatcheries or clubs. With this list, we can come up with an action plan to stop it.


Yes please, I'll second this suggestion. I'm curious where all of these tremendous brookie streams are that are being held back by overstocking.

I can think of one in my neck of the woods, and that would possibly be East Licking Creek (but it can get awfully skinny during the dog days of summer, so I doubt stocking is the main detriment there). Just about every other brookie stream I frequent, it's the habitat and not stocking policies that are holding us back from regularly catching trophy sized natives. Granted, I don't head up into the northern tier much to chase brookies, so my knowledge is admittedly weak in that regard.

Posted on: 1/19 12:24


Re: Wild Brook Trout

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My impressions from seeing the use of the word "viable" here over the years is that the definition has varied depending upon the individual and that the definition has been contextual. By definition, a viable population can be pretty darn minimal and certainly not large enough to provide any kind of fishery.

Posted on: 1/19 18:15


Re: Wild Brook Trout

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I'll start putting a list together, but it will take awhile.

In the meantime, other people feel free to post some.

Afish, Mike, anyone.

Surely many of you are familiar with streams where hatchery trout are being stocked over native brook trout.

Posted on: 1/19 19:39


Re: Wild Brook Trout

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2009/2/19 19:59
From Mont Co, Pa
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Drakes Creek (Carbon) comes to mind. It is a tiny little stream, but has such potential. It does have some deep pools in certain spots. I'm sure the stocked trout eat their share of little natives, because their numbers aren't what they were 10 years ago, when I fished it for the first time. It really is a cool little stream further up in the gorge. My buddy caught a 9" native on Drakes, so they're not all 4" trout. I think Drakes would be well served if they stopped the stocking.

Posted on: 1/19 20:31
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Re: Wild Brook Trout

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Here are a few:

Eddy Lick Run, Wolf Run, Pine Creek (Penns drainage), Sixmile Run, South Fork Beech Creek, White Deer Creek, Marsh Creek.

All in Centre Cty.


Posted on: 1/19 20:50


Re: Wild Brook Trout

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A few more:

Brooks Run, Clear Creek, Driftwood Branch (upper part), East Branch Cowley Run, Mix Run, North Creek, Upper Jerry Run, West Branch Hicks Run, Wykoff Run.

All Cameron County.

Posted on: 1/19 20:56


Re: Wild Brook Trout
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2006/9/11 8:26
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Quote:

Mike wrote:
My impressions from seeing the use of the word "viable" here over the years is that the definition has varied depending upon the individual and that the definition has been contextual. By definition, a viable population can be pretty darn minimal and certainly not large enough to provide any kind of fishery.


Everyone has a different definition of what the consider a viable stream. For me, it's a stream that currently has a population of trout and has the potential to become a Class A wild trout stream.

I can just imagine if in the 80's some fish huggers suggested that stocking be halted in Valley Creek to allow it to become a Class A wild trout stream. Stocking stopped and it grew into a very popular wild stream right in the middle of millions of people. There was a lot of work done to get it cleaned up and protect it, but it was a viable stream....I guess.

To the credit of the Clean Water Act, conservation organizations as well as the PFBC, many stream have been cleaned up and now are viable wild trout streams. Look at the Little J as an example, the training wheels have been taken off and it's no longer a "viable" wild trout stream, it's an "actual" wild trout stream.

Anyway the best way to start is to ID the wild streams being stocked and decide if stocking is the best way forward. Let's face it, given the budget realities of the PFBC, the number of streams as well as the amount of fish stocked will have to be cut. It would make the most sense to cut stocking where wild fish numbers make a stream a viable fishery and move the stocking more to streams that are not viable fisheries without stocked fish.

Posted on: 1/20 6:23

Edited by afishinado on 2018/1/20 6:40:16


Re: Wild Brook Trout
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From Chester County
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Quote:

troutbert wrote:

Here are a few:

Eddy Lick Run, Wolf Run, Pine Creek (Penns drainage), Sixmile Run, South Fork Beech Creek, White Deer Creek, Marsh Creek.

All in Centre Cty.


A few more:

Brooks Run, Clear Creek, Driftwood Branch (upper part), East Branch Cowley Run, Mix Run, North Creek, Upper Jerry Run, West Branch Hicks Run, Wykoff Run.

All Cameron County.


Good stuff, Dwight!

There's a lot of knowledgeable anglers on this site from all parts of the state. Let's everyone participate to compile an entire list of brook trout streams in PA that are currently stocked. We can check each one out to confirm, and work from there.



Posted on: 1/20 6:46


Re: Wild Brook Trout

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Valley Creek is not a good example and at some point in the future I will most likely show that. My point, however, was that your group will somehow eventually need to settle on a definition of viable or choose another word that more clearly defines what the group is seeking. It sounds as though you are saying viable fishery while in the past others have seemingly meant viable populations, the definition of which are less restrictive. I'm not here to debate this; I'm just pointing it out. It is up to your group to settle.

Posted on: 1/20 8:30

Edited by Mike on 2018/1/20 8:47:57
Edited by Mike on 2018/1/20 8:48:36


Re: Wild Brook Trout

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2011/5/9 15:37
From Ohio
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Let's put our rods and reels down for a second..

Does there HAVE to be a viable fishery, to move forward and protect/enhance brook trout populations? So just because there aren't "enough," or they're "too small," or whatever to provide any kind of "viable" fishery in someone's mind, let's go ahead and dump some hatchery fish on top of them. Because creating a viable fishing opportunity(stocked trout) > conservation of the state fish

Point being, why spend a ton of money on something that is potentially destructive to, or limits a native brook trout population. The trout could be stocked in other waters that don't have brook trout, or the money could be used on other stuff. Why does there NEED to be stocked trout fisheries in these streams? License sales, I guess.....

Posted on: 1/20 9:20


Re: Wild Brook Trout

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2009/7/28 19:49
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Laurel Run in Huntingdon County upstream from Whipple Dam State Park to headwaters. State stocks hatchery brookies from dam upstream to Pine Swamp bridge. Fairly wide and has a population of natives upstream from dam but could be better if stocking ceases.

Posted on: 1/20 12:08


Re: Wild Brook Trout
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"has a population of natives upstream from dam but could be better if stocking ceases."

This is the crux. Who has evidence to support this statement?

Posted on: 1/20 12:29
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Re: Wild Brook Trout

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2009/7/28 19:49
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Jack,

My stating that the section of Laurel Run I referenced could contain a better population of natives and possibly larger ones if stocking ceases was just my opinion.


Posted on: 1/20 13:11


Re: Wild Brook Trout

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2015/6/1 16:22
From Burke VA
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Quote:

JackM wrote:
"has a population of natives upstream from dam but could be better if stocking ceases."

This is the crux. Who has evidence to support this statement?


Do you disagree or are you just playing devil's advocate?

Posted on: 1/20 14:38


Re: Wild Brook Trout

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2006/9/11 19:52
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Brookies can still achieve pretty respectable size. I have been fishing small mountain streams now for over 20 years. Anybody who regularly fishes these small streams knows a catch of 20 to 30 fish /day is not that difficult. My records show that 30 to 40% were 7-inches or larger and a few as large as 11 inches. I measured a native brookie that another guy caught that was 12.5 inches. We aged him at 4 years. With another couple of years of life - a typical small stream brook trout maximum life span - that brookie would have approached 20 inches. So they can still get pretty big.

I have caught or lost browns in a few of the same streams that were 17 inches or larger. If browns can get that big, there is no reason to think that brookies living in these same streams could not get just as big. So PA brookies are still genetically capable of achieving 20 inches or so, given the right conditions and enough time.

Posted on: 1/20 15:53



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