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Re: Why is PA still stocking trout?

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2010/6/9 12:35
From down the block from the Letort.
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Ok Steve, then compare West Yellowstone or Gardiner as a whole to either Coburn or Milheim or combine the two if you'd like...not like there's only fly shops in any of those places. How many places can you go out for dinner in Coburn, how many places can you book a room?

Forest and trees and all that, as you say....

Posted on: 12/9 18:34


Re: Why is PA still stocking trout?

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Quote:
It takes a long time to change minds.


Considering that it's probably a generational thing, and the next generation really ain't that much into 'the outdoors' comparatively speaking......interesting dilemma we've found ourselves in, eh?

Posted on: 12/9 18:52


Re: Why is PA still stocking trout?

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2006/9/10 21:53
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You might want to read my post again. Your response has nothing to do with it.

You claim Montana stocking is not to attract anglers. Bull. It's one of the top three reasons to go to Montana according to the governor. So YES, they stock to attract anglers.

Posted on: 12/10 9:53


Re: Why is PA still stocking trout?
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Quote:

tomitrout wrote:
Given a couple grand to burn on a vacation, where would you go?


The vast majority of folks have a couple of hundred $ to spend on a vacation. And most would go on multiple vacations and long weekends closer to home.

But that's really not the point. PA isn't Montana, but it's a nice place to visit to hike and fish. While the fishing is good, I suppose it could be better. Stocking trout should continue in most of the streams that are currently stocked; the ones with no or very few wild trout. Right now this is mostly the case.

I do agree with the marketing part of it, though. The PFBC can do a much better job marketing the beauty of the state and the fishing opportunities. I see way too much marketing for the hatcheries and the white trucks. Every state has hatcheries and white trucks, but not many have wild places and wild stream-born fish.

Just about all the real PA destination places are wild fisheries....duh. Take care of them and make more wild streams C&R. The trend is away from catch & keep; why perpetuate that mentality in streams with wild trout.

Also financial reality dictates stocking must decrease. Why promote something that is destined to decline?.....duh...duh! Fine-tune stocking and turn more focus to wild trout streams and C&R wild trout fishing. Spending more dollars on preserving wild areas and opening public access to wild trout streams would be a great way to start.

Posted on: 12/10 10:30


Re: Why is PA still stocking trout?

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Quote:

afishinado wrote:

Stocking trout should continue in most of the streams that are currently stocked; the ones with no or very few wild trout. Right now this is mostly the case.


A good project for someone good with GIS software would be to bring up the stream mileage stocked by the PFBC. And also the wild trout stream mileage.

Then show on the map the stream mileage that is both. And the software would also give you the total mileage of stocked wild trout streams.

I think that would be fairly easy to do. Both data sets are available from the PASDA website.

There must be some college student with access to ArcGIs who could do this interesting exercise. If so, please report back what you find.

My estimate is that about HALF the stream mileage stocked by the PFBC is on the wild trout list.

The coop hatcheries also stock a very large number of streams, many of which are streams that the PFBC does not stock, and much of which is wild trout water. But I don't think the info of where the coop hatcheries stock is available.







Posted on: 12/10 11:55


Re: Why is PA still stocking trout?

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Tom, there aren't only fly shops there bc there are numerous activities that people travel there for. If anything, traveling fisherman probably account for a minority in those areas. There a a couple restaurants in Millheim, notably the Elk Creek Cafe, and there is lodging in the area, in addition to campgrounds. Hell, I was shocked years ago when they put that traffic light in Millheim. If you want more, it's a very short drive to Bellefonte or Stare College.

Posted on: 12/10 12:27


Re: Why is PA still stocking trout?

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2006/9/10 21:53
From Greensburg, PA
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i know the area. i have no idea what you are talking about

you mentioned Montana. i pointed out why that MONTANA statement was false. Stocking is done to attract anglers. period. ...i'm out.

Posted on: 12/10 13:16


Re: Why is PA still stocking trout?

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Was replying to the other tom.

Posted on: 12/10 23:48


Re: Why is PA still stocking trout?

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That makes more sense..

Posted on: 12/10 23:58


Re: Why is PA still stocking trout?

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Here are five points for consideration regarding the MT vs PA discussion:

#1 - In 2018 Montana will stock 36,000 trout in 40 miles of 4 rivers. Those three numbers are the entire river trout stocking planned for all MT in 2018. 36,000 trout in 40 miles of 4 rivers.

10,000 of those trout are cutthroats to be placed in 2 miles of a single river.

Another 20,000 brown and rainbow trout are going into 23 miles of another single river.

The remaining 6,000 trout will go into 15 miles of 2 other rivers.

That's it for Montana's plans to stock rivers with trout in 2018.

#2 - How many million trout will PA stock in how many miles of what number of rivers?

#3 - Most MT streams do allow a limit for trout, normally 5 and no more than 1 over 18". Some popular trout rivers are more restrictive, for example, the Missouri River below Holter Dam (Craig, MT) is more restrictive with a 3 trout limit, only 1 greater than 18".

#4 - I have never, ever, seen a stringer of trout in MT - and I have spent months fishing the state's trout streams where trout could be kept.

#5 - I have virtually never gone a day on a PA trout stream where trout could be kept without seeing one or more stringers full of trout.

In my opinion, we (PA) have an attitude problem -- we need to promote C&R much more extensively. Montana has done this quite well. Stocking huge quantities of trout is just a symptom of our (PA's) attitude problem.

First step towards solving the problem is to stop PA's ridiculous trout stamp pricing policy. Charging someone $8 per year for the privilege to keep >$15 of product per day is not a sustainable business model. PA should have 2 trout stamps, one C&R, one catch & keep. You want to keep >$15 of trout per day? It should cost $45/day or more. No sustainable business plan would consider anything else.

Also in my opinion, if we solved the attitude problem PA trout fishing could equal MT trout fishing.




Posted on: 12/11 8:59


Re: Why is PA still stocking trout?

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2009/12/2 19:56
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Quote:
First step towards solving the problem is to stop PA's ridiculous trout stamp pricing policy. Charging someone $8 per year for the privilege to keep >$15 of product per day is not a sustainable business model. PA should have 2 trout stamps, one C&R, one catch & keep. You want to keep >$15 of trout per day? It should cost $45/day or more. No sustainable business plan would consider anything else.

Interesting concept. In order to promote C&R - or CRR (Catch and Responsible Release) especially for bait & spin fishers - barbs should be banned on hooks size 10 and larger.

Posted on: 12/11 9:12


Re: Why is PA still stocking trout?

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2006/9/9 11:22
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Quote:

MBWCC wrote:

#1 - In 2018 Montana will stock 36,000 trout in 40 miles of 4 rivers. Those three numbers are the entire river trout stocking planned for all MT in 2018. 36,000 trout in 40 miles of 4 rivers.

10,000 of those trout are cutthroats to be placed in 2 miles of a single river.

Another 20,000 brown and rainbow trout are going into 23 miles of another single river.

The remaining 6,000 trout will go into 15 miles of 2 other rivers.

That's it for Montana's plans to stock rivers with trout in 2018.



Out of curiosity, where did you find this info? I couldn't find much in regard to stocking of any trout in any moving waterways.

I'm wondering how many of these fish these are even adult trout.

Posted on: 12/11 9:32


Re: Why is PA still stocking trout?
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Quote:

PennKev wrote:
Quote:

MBWCC wrote:

#1 - In 2018 Montana will stock 36,000 trout in 40 miles of 4 rivers. Those three numbers are the entire river trout stocking planned for all MT in 2018. 36,000 trout in 40 miles of 4 rivers.

10,000 of those trout are cutthroats to be placed in 2 miles of a single river.

Another 20,000 brown and rainbow trout are going into 23 miles of another single river.

The remaining 6,000 trout will go into 15 miles of 2 other rivers.

That's it for Montana's plans to stock rivers with trout in 2018.



Out of curiosity, where did you find this info? I couldn't find much in regard to stocking of any trout in any moving waterways.

I'm wondering how many of these fish these are even adult trout.


Here is info I found about trout stocking in MT:

..the department is now rearing and planting eight million trout per year. But instead of stocking rivers and streams, it plants lakes and reservoirs. And instead of stocking catchable-sized fish, the stocking has shifted to smaller trout that grow to be catchable size but have wilder traits. The hatchery program now is critical for lake management and also for helping propagate species of concern such as westslope cutthroat. It’s really doing a great job.


Also in the article is some interesting info about stocking over wild trout:

Based on my observations over the years and the results of studies done in Pennsylvania, I believe that hatchery fish disrupted the natural behavior and feeding territories of wild trout. Wild trout have feeding territories and a social hierarchy based on size and behavior that efficiently makes use of available food and makes the fish less vulnerable to predation while feeding. Fish reared in hatcheries don’t worry about predation while feeding and swarm to food fed at concentrated locations with regular timing. Those who get to the food first survive.

Thus, when hatchery fish are dumped in with wild trout, they are not used to finding their own food, and their nutrition and survival suffers at the same time that they are disrupting the feeding territories of wild trout. The behavior of hatchery trout also makes them more vulnerable to predation. The disruption of the behavior and territories of the wild trout both reduces their feeding efficiency and nutritional level and also makes them more vulnerable to predation than they previously were. Thus, both wild and hatchery fish have a lower survival rate when in the same stream area.

One example of stress changes due to stocking that we observed during our study was an increase in detectable movement of the resident wild trout after hatchery rainbow trout were stocked. Normally, wild trout in these streams show very little detectable movement (less than 5 percent), with most movement being very localized around feeding sites and cover. Release of hatchery trout in O’Dell Creek increased detectable movement by over 1,000 percent, which left the wild trout more vulnerable to predation (including by anglers) and reduced nutrition due to poor feeding sites.


Link to source: http://fwp.mt.gov/mtoutdoors/HTML/articles/2004/DickVincent.htm

Posted on: 12/11 10:29


Re: Why is PA still stocking trout?

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2010/5/27 12:05
From SE Pennsylvania
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Quote:

PennKev wrote:
Out of curiosity, where did you find this info? I couldn't find much in regard to stocking of any trout in any moving waterways.

Montana FWP Stocking Plan


Export (.cvs) is available. From there use MS Excel and some filtering. I filtered location column for presence of "River" but not "Lake". I filtered species column for "Trout".

The results will leave a few lines for the Ruby River Reservoir -- simply exclude those.

Quote:
I'm wondering how many of these fish these are even adult trout.

The cutthroats are 2", everything else is 7-8".

Posted on: 12/11 10:42

Edited by MBWCC on 2017/12/11 11:30:47
Edited by MBWCC on 2017/12/11 11:31:32


Re: Why is PA still stocking trout?

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2016/1/29 11:09
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I didn't read every reply on this thread, but addressing the original question, I'm really not sure why PA continues to stock millions of pelletheads every year.

Streams that support natural reproduction don't need stockers dumped in them to compete with the wilds and natives.

Streams that don't, and never have, supported natural reproduction, don't need Trout at all. There's dozens of other sportfish in PA that sustain self-supporting populations in said streams and waters.

Warmwater lakes that are only cold enough for Trout to survive in for 5-6 months/year..... don't need any stockers. Again, there's plenty of other sportfish that survive year round in these waters to target. And, keep in mind, this is coming from a guy who loves to chase Trout but lives 90-100 minutes away from any even half-decent wild Trout fisheries.

But, before we can progress towards getting rid of all of the pointless inland stocked Trout fisheries in PA, the put'n'take and 'kill my limit' mentalities need to be eliminated first.

Posted on: 12/11 12:57



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