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Who owns the trout?

Joined:
2008/2/24 8:45
From York
Posts: 42
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I always enjoy reading the posts here, but I rarely contribute to the conversations. I'm just not much for communicating by way of the ether. Lately, though, I've been nagged by questions to which some of you must surely know the answer and about which all of you certainly have an opinion.

Namely, who owns the wild trout in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania? If the answer is the state, when did the state gain title? Did the governed ever consent to this? If so when? Did William Penn once own all of the trout? Charles the Second? If the answer is: “We all own the trout.” then, well I just hope that's not the answer because to me it's a hopelessly vague and ambiguous one. If the answer is: “No one owns them.” then by what legal logic does the state regulate the possession of wild trout?

Simply by asking these questions, my own opinion must be quite plain. But please don't assume that my motives are only selfish or that I wish to exploit what I know is a limited and precious resource. That is not the case. Rather, I practice conservation. But I am also a “reluctant anarchist” (as my late friend, Joe Sobran, would put it). For me, these are not contradictory ideas; indeed I believe that blame for both destruction of natural resources and the destruction of liberty can be laid squarely on the centralization of power in the hands of a few regardless of their good intentions.

But, hey, that's just me. What do you think?

Posted on: 2013/2/27 19:25


Re: Who owns the trout?

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2012/1/13 15:28
From Ferguson Twp.
Posts: 2523
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I think it's no one, and if the state didn't regulate the possession of said trout there wouldn't be any.

Posted on: 2013/2/27 19:34
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Re: Who owns the trout?

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2009/5/29 6:40
From harlansburg
Posts: 4444
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try keeping too many and you'll find out soon enough!

Posted on: 2013/2/27 19:37


Re: Who owns the trout?

Joined:
2008/3/11 9:40
From Lambertville
Posts: 1338
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God owns the trout. No one holds legal title to the trout or the eagle just as no one owns me or anyone else.

I believe the state of Pennsylvania is obligated to issue regulations designed to protect trout and other wildlife in the same sense there are laws to protect people.

I think the concept of ownership can be applied to someone stocking a pond on private property in the same sense that a farmer or rancher owns his livestock.

Posted on: 2013/2/27 20:37

Edited by RCFetter on 2013/2/27 20:54:51


Re: Who owns the trout?

Joined:
2011/3/2 13:43
From Gamehendge
Posts: 962
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Quote:

RCFetter wrote:
God owns the trout.


Yup. If not god a higher force.

Posted on: 2013/2/27 20:42
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Re: Who owns the trout?

Joined:
2006/9/13 10:18
From LV
Posts: 7642
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Firstof all, PA is not a State sothe "State" doesn't own the trout. PA is a Commonwealth, and by definition we all own the trout, therefore we are responsible for their welfare and conservation. Maybe we should petition the court to put a question on the ballot to protect the trout from PFBC, by lowering the limit on wild fish. Someone has to step forward.

Posted on: 2013/2/27 21:23
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There is always time to do more to protect wild trout.


Re: Who owns the trout?

Joined:
2008/2/24 8:45
From York
Posts: 42
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Good answers!

But I suspect bikerfish is closest. Doesn't the one who possesses power over a thing own it?

If God owns them, didn't he instruct us to take dominion over them? Or was He addressing the PFBC?

If the state is obligated to protect them, are there any limits to this protection? Do they have the right to outlaw fishing altogether? Wouldn't this be the best protection?

Something tells me there were trout long before the invention of the state...

Remarkable! There is no hesitation to endorse the power to regulate human behavior yet none of us seem to agree on where that right comes from. Am I the only one who finds this alarming?


Posted on: 2013/2/27 22:23


Re: Who owns the trout?

Joined:
2008/8/24 20:26
From Mount Joy, PA
Posts: 2223
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Who "owns" the deer? What about the bears? We all do!

Posted on: 2013/2/27 22:34


Re: Who owns the trout?

Joined:
2006/11/2 8:50
Posts: 6204
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Re: the original post.

What are you proposing?

State your specific proposal of how trout in PA should be managed, and give your reasons why we should support that.

Then we'd have something to discuss.

Posted on: 2013/2/27 22:47


Re: Who owns the trout?
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/9 19:16
From Dallastown, PA
Posts: 7045
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I think Owns is the wrong way to approach this question.

The Commonwealth (the people) own the water rights where access is available. Oversight of this asset is handled through the F&BC, this includes the fish and game within. We all as citizens have the right to fish for them where legal.

This may not sit well with an anarchist. But consider if owned by the citizens with no oversight they would be extirpated as happened in the past prior to the formation of the F&BC.

Now, once you catch and harvest a wild trout legally, you own it.

They are a resource unowned until owned via harvest or by proxy via property rights.

Posted on: 2013/2/27 23:12
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Re: Who owns the trout?

Joined:
2010/1/2 15:17
From PA and NH
Posts: 749
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Yes, you are the only one who finds this alarming.

Posted on: 2013/2/28 7:35


Re: Who owns the trout?

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2009/2/19 19:59
From Mont Co, Pa
Posts: 2030
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The only thing that I truely consider alarming is climate change (because it affects EVERYBODY), and there's nothing I can do about it. But, I believe it's the people of the Commonwealth who "own" the trout.

Posted on: 2013/2/28 8:01
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Protect the resource, let them go!


Re: Who owns the trout?
Moderator
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2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
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Attach file:



jpg  Yood hav dis.jpg (106.08 KB)
53_512f5640e3ddc.jpg 500X394 px

Posted on: 2013/2/28 8:06


Re: Who owns the trout?

Joined:
2011/7/6 12:30
From Ephrata, PA
Posts: 6444
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I think Mo is right. "Owns" is not the right word to use. Our government, for example, does not OWN the individual citizen (despite how perverted things may have become in this country, we still are not owned by our government), and yet the government has a RESPONSIBILITY to protect and guard the general welfare of its citizens. Thinking about this in the same light, I believe the state has a responsibility to protect and guard the general welfare of its resources, including its wildlife.

I'm sure this can be picked apart and torn to shreds somehow, but I think this is the general idea anyway.

Posted on: 2013/2/28 8:17


Re: Who owns the trout?

Joined:
2006/11/2 8:50
Posts: 6204
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Who "owned" the passenger pigeons?

Posted on: 2013/2/28 8:25



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