Which has the better drift

[Fredrick]

I was wondering do you get a better drift with or without a bobber I mean strike indicator. I just started nymphing without an indicator and started to ask myself is nymphing without an indicator going to improve my drift or hurt it. I just wanted to get your opinions on this one and facts if there is any thxs in advance

Sincerly,
FRED AKA the poacher hunter :-D

 

[Padraic]

This might make a good poll.

My opinion is that the drift is better without the indicator. I have absolutely nothing against them. My feeling about it is, you want the nymph to drift "in three dimensions". That is, with the current and against the streambed. The indicator would not let the nymph drop to follow a dip in the streambed. In pools or runs this is not a serious problem as the streambed is fairly uniform. But the best bymphing water is pocket water (at least for me), and you want the nymph to fall into those pockets.

 

[Fredrick]

A pole would be nice Pad start it up :-D

 

[tabasco_joe]

Fredrick wrote:
I was wondering do you get a better drift with or without a bobber I mean strike indicator. I just started nymphing without an indicator and started to ask myself is nymphing without an indicator going to improve my drift or hurt it. I just wanted to get your opinions on this one and facts if there is any thxs in advance

Sincerly,
FRED AKA the poacher hunter :-D

Yes you get a better drift with or without a bobber! What I mean is that under some conditions you do, under others you don't. You'll see in my response to the poll I said I use a strike indicator 75% of the time. That's down from 99%. I'm finding more and more that the areas I fish have complex currents. Not that the currents are changing but that I am noticing the affects on my tippet more. So if I'm fishing a run or chute and the nymph seems to be leading my indicator or the indicator is pulling my nymph off the bottom too much I remove it. I think in some cases the indicators water resistance sets the hook and gets me into poor habits of not being on top of hook sets the instant I get a strike.

 

[Padraic]

I charge $20 for consulting.

 

[afishinado]

Fred,

Your question was “is nymphing without an indicator going to improve my drift or hurt it?” The answer……it depends on the situation. I go both ways (with respect to indicators!) depending on conditions.

I like to use an indicator when I need to reach out and cast across several current lanes, because I can mend to the indicator like I mend a dry fly to prevent drag and get a longer drift.

In broken or off colored water where I am able to wade close to the fish, I usually high-stick or Czech nymph without an indicator. In deep fast water I don’t use an indicator, I use thin running line and use my sense of feel as well as sight for strike detection. I can control the depth of the fly and follow the contour of the bottom using the two aforementioned methods – a point that Pad made on an earlier post.

In shallow water, or when the fish are up in the water column feeding, I sometimes use a dry fly as an indicator. Also, sometimes while fishing shallow water I will put a pinch of Strike Putty on the leader / tippet knots to better see my line. I don’t know if that would be classified as an indicator since it doesn’t float or suspend the fly.

When midging in calm water with good light, I grease my leader and tippet up to 12” from the fly and use the tippet for strike detection.

In fast pocket water I use a heavily weighted fly I call a depth charge with a short leader and no indicator.

Lately, when I do use an indicator, I like the poly yarn rather than the Styrofoam ones. The yarn indicators splash less, cast well, can be trimmed down to any size, and are cheap (I make them myself). I’ve been experimenting with a larger yarn type indicator and attaching a string of small shot from just below the indicator down the tippet to the fly. I'm trying to get a more vertical drag free float – copying the center-pinning method. Still working on that one.

There’s no easy answer to your question, but I would say don’t listen to the guys who say never use an indicator to nymph, or the guys that say always use an indicator to nymph. IMO, you need to use the best-suited method for the fish and water conditions. Sometimes an indicator fishes best, and sometimes using just your leader works better.

Are you ready to go both ways Fred?

 

[dryflyguy]

I had an eye opening experience fishing for steelhead up Erie last month. I was at a large hole on Walnut creek that was just loaded with fresh run fish, and the water was very clear so that I could see down in it very well.
I was fishing a wooley bugger about 4 ft below an indicator, and after 2-3 hours of fishing, hadn't caught a thing. Finally on one retrieve, I happened to be watching the fly, and saw a fish snap at it and let it go rather quickly. And the indicator never moved. So I continued to watch the fly, instead of the indicator for awhile, and saw another fish snap at the fly. Again, the indicator never moved, but this time I set the hook quickly, and caught the fish.
I then removed the indicator, and just twitched the wooley bugger thru the fish, watching it constantly. And every once in a while, a fish would snap at it,and I'd pull and catch it.
I ended up landing 7 fish that day with this new style of fishing.
Now, I'm not saying that indicators aren't any good to use, but it sure seems like it pays to have an open mind, and try different methods

 

[Fredrick]

Well some people would feel offended if you asked them that question Afish :-D . I think this would be the one thing I can say that i'm a switch hitter with LOL.. But right now i'm trying to get to were its second nature for me to fish without an indicator. But I think the key to being good at anything is to be versatile I'm going to toy with this for awhile than I'm going to incorporate them together in my fishing game plan...

 

[sandfly]

I make my own Indicaters that dont effect the drift...also dont effect a dry fly... :-D

 

[pete41]

I turned barbarian about a decade ago but don't they still make nymphing lines with colored tips?

 

[skiltonian]

like everyone already said, depends on flow, clarity, and depth.
With winter approaching, trout will stack in deeper water and suspend in the thermoclines which tend to be close to the bottom. also generally speaking, flows are lower. in this case, I'd use an indicator. also in faster flows where I'm running a shot configuration, i'd use an indicator. in most cases imo, the indicator will give you better drift because you can control the float with weight and thus allow better tracking (by which I mean keeping the float and thus fly where you want it in the drift).
without the indicator, you need to cast further upstream to get the fly down, have a shorter window of keeping the fly in the strike zone, and once out of the zone you are basically swinging (which sometimes isn't a bad thing). I've been centerpinning for almost nine years now and I've taken a lot from that and apply it to indicator fishing. Ross Reels now has a new pin coming out and they are trying to market it to fly guys as a techical nymphing method. Unfornately their sales rep doesn't have a clue on how to float fish...
In summary, yes the indicator makes a huge difference. Ask any spey guy on how to make the best of using the spey and they'll tell you speydicator fishing. Without a float is like dry fly fishing, its effective but only 15% of the time.

Skiltonian

 

[tabasco_joe]

sandfly wrote:
I make my own Indicaters that dont effect the drift...also dont effect a dry fly... :-D

Could you give us some details?

 

[Padraic]

Tobasco,

I don't know what Sandfly uses, but I tie my own leaders with bits of colored flyline behind the knots. If you have two colored dots to watch, it's easy to see the bottom dot twitch in relation to the top. They also don't affect casting or presenting other types of flies. So you can nymph before the hatch and switch to the emerger or dry without swapping out your leader. Typically though, I wouldn't want to have the dots on my leader unless I knew I was going to nymph fish.

 

[sandfly]

dang pad you found me out, only i use a 1 inch piece on the butt section..then i can slide it uop and down the leader...when fishing a dry i keep it at the upper most part...i never take them off...flouresant orange seems to work the best so far..Since i use whitlocks method for attaching leader to line(glue no knot) I can put it tight to the line tip...

 

[mediclimber]

I'd have to say that no indicator will work better in 80% or more of the nymphing, but, that ten to twenty percent of the time you will want some type of indicator. The problem is the huge variety of indicators to choose from. I personnaly carry three different types and pick which one to use by how much it will actually suspend the nymph. Good luck figuring out what works for you.

 

[MKern]

It depends on the type of water you like to fish. If I fish the deep stuff, I put on an indicator. However, 95% of the time I fish riffles and pockets, and use someting like high-sticking, so I can ffel the strike without the need of an indicator.

By the way, a bobber is designed to suspend bait at a 90 degree angle to the water's surface. However, in fly fishing, a strike indicator is almost never directly above the fly. The fly can be behind, to the side, or pending underwater subcurrents in front of the indicator. An indicator also shows any influence on the fly, including current change, rocks, or hopefully, fish.

 

[Padraic]

"dang pad you found me out"

I don't think there's any reason to worry about being "found out". The only thing that tics me off about indicators is when a guy uses a colored section of mono in his leader, or dry/dropper and says it's not an idicator rig. I just think that's hyocritical.

 

[MKern]

The only thing that tics me off about indicators is when a guy uses a colored section of mono in his leader, or dry/dropper and says it's not an idicator rig. I just think that's hyocritical.

Pad, you are so right. If you watch the colored section of leader, and it moves because a fish takes the fly (or indicates a strike from a fish), than it's a strike indicator.

 

[JackM]

In my view, there is a significant difference from using a visual clue to strikes and placing a bobber on your line for the same purpose. Neither is good or bad, but they are different, with a visual point of reference being the only real similarity. I have begun using "indicators" in limited situations while fishing beneath the surface, most notably when steelhead fishing. When fishing without an "indicator," I am doing something significantly different than when I use one, and it doesn't seem artificial or hypocritical to distinguish between those two techniques.

 

[Chaz]

When I do nymph which I have to say is not very often, I use a piece of old fly line as a strike indicator. This I slide over the leader to the top of the knot. It doesn't hinder the drift and is easy to see both above and below the water, if the water is clear. It also doesn't drag the fly through holes and pocket water too fast, nor does it splash on the water or create surface drag.