What is wrong with a tailing loop?

[JackM]

I understand the risk of wind knots, but assuming that is a rare result of the tailing loop, what other reasons should counsel me to try to avoid forming one with my cast? I have a suspicion of the answer, but was wondering what others' speculations are.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Tangles.

 

[Maurice]

Tailing loop is a symptom of a cast that has diminished energy. The "wind knot or tangle" is a possible resulting negative consequence. The other is the lack of available energy to deliver the maximum potential in the subsequent stroke resulting in a leader and tippet that falls well short the target because the energy cannot transfer far enough to roll it out sufficiently.

KIMIHNIWITA

 

[FarmerDave]

Just tell everyone you are shadow casting.

 

[Chaz]

To translate what Maurice said, the fly won't land where you want it to land.

 

[brookieaddict]

yep

 

[pcray1231]

Well, to play devil's advocate, and further Jack's point.

When dry fly fishing, I'm quite often intentionally trying to collapse the leader. And regarding it falling short, well, if you have a CONSISTENT tailing loop, you can just compensate for it like some golfers compensate for a consistent slice. It does shorten your maximum cast, but it's very rare that a fisherman is coming anywhere close to their maximum distance anyway.

That said, for me the downfall isn't just wind knots, but tangles. The fly often catches the line. If you're lucky, you merely get a wind knot or have to unhook the fly from the line. If you're not lucky it can get ugly.

I confess to quite frequently throwing a tailing loop. It's worst in situations where I have to alter from my normal stroke, due to obstructions and the like. But it happens more than it should even on a regular cast. I overpower casts.

 

[tomitrout]

An in depth look at tailing loops:

http://www.sexyloops.com/flycasting/tailingloops.shtml


Generally speaking, if you're throwing tailing loops unintentionally, that's a bad thing. You've got issues with your technique and bit of practice and decent instruction would probably be a big help. But like Pcray said, tailing loops can also be an effective tool for presentation, once you've developed the skills to throw them on purpose. Which means you first need to eliminate them in order to understand them and then reintroduce them into your casting repetoire.

 

[JackM]

Great explanation of why bad technique may not be bad at all. I need lessons to learn how I can cast purposely the way I cast naturally. I like that. Who do I pay?

 

[OldLefty]

In my old age my lack of discipline in holding my peace is becoming more of a problem; hence, my comments on this issue.

As a casting instructor I must first state that there is still much about casting I don't know. That being said, I must also say that I cannot imagine a scenario wherein someone would want to deliberately present a fly by incorporating a tailing loop in the cast. Why would someone want to risk line tangle, knots (which are basically a tangle pulled tight) or breaking off a fly?

JackM did not ask what causes a tailing loop; however, some attempted to incorporate some reasoning in their responses. Let's understand that there is one cause of a tailing loop: abrupt application of power. This can be manifested in a few ways: applying too much power to soon, insufficient stroke length for the amount of line being cast, etc., all of which cause the rod tip to travel in a concave path. This does not necessarily result in a piling of the leader or the fly landing off target. This may occur sometimes, especially if the line/leader , as it must rise from below the line coming from the rod tip to roll out, makes contact.

The ONLY time I deliberately cast a tailing loop is to demonstrate to a student or group to show them what a tailing loop looks like and what it may do to mess up a cast. From then on I emphasize that they need to avoid casting tailing loops.

Someone would have to go a loonngg way to convince me that a tailing loop can provide any advantage in presenting a fly in a fishing situation. I would appreciate it if someone would volunteer to do so. I always enjoy demonstrating and discussing casting, especially when we can dig deep into the subject.

One final note. If I'm proven wrong I will gladly yield...

 

[pcray1231]

haha, I'm overmatched in a casting discussion.

I did not mean to imply that a tailing loop was beneficial. Merely not always exceptionally harmful. I was just playing devils advocate.

Anyway, I do try to collapse my leader in certain situations. But:

1. Not in all situations, obviously. With nymphs and streamers I usually attempt a tuck cast, which is straightening it out and then some!
2. I wouldn't say the tailing loop particularly helps me or hurts me doing what I want to do at the end. I merely shock and drop at the end of the forward stroke, or employ a slack line cast, or a tuck cast, and none of this has anything to do with what my backcast looked like! It's just that if a tailing loop prevents me from straightening the leader out, I'm not gonna be particularly upset about it, because quite often I'm not really trying to straighten it out.

At least for me, tangles and knots are the drawbacks of throwing a tailing loop. I get em occasionally. They're annoying. I would not and do not intentionally want to do it. But for me, maybe my tailing loop is not severe enough, but it's nothing more than an annoyance. It doesn't ruin my fishing. I change tippet lengths often enough that the occasional wind knot is quickly spotted and quickly removed, or with brookies I just choose to live with it and it causes no harm. I hook my own line up higher once or twice an hour, and it takes about 10 seconds to unhook.

Maybe once every few outings I get a more serious tangle from it, and that takes about 5 minutes out of my day.

So it would be to my benefit to fix it, and I should. But only a slight benefit, it's not like it was the bane of my existence. I have no desire to compete in casting championships. Merely want to fish effectively.

 

[tomitrout]

Someone would have to go a loonngg way to convince me that a tailing loop can provide any advantage in presenting a fly in a fishing situation. I would appreciate it if someone would volunteer to do so. I always enjoy demonstrating and discussing casting, especially when we can dig deep into the subject.

Well, there's this (also from Sexyloops):

Description: The last stretch of line and the leader hook 90º left. The rest of the line lands with a lot of little curves (slack).

Use: to present your fly to a fish located in front of you on your own side of the stream without lining it and without your fly dragging. The main stretch of the line is in line with the current.

Execution: after a low backcast, stop the rod tip very high applying too much power too soon (as if to create a tailing loop on purpose). Just then, when you stop the front cast, flick our wrist outwards (right for right-handed casters). A second after the stop, lower the rod tip until it almost touches the water. You've got to do all this smoothly.

Which, you know, is just one way to skin that cat...

 

[afishinado]

LOL....Dave R / Old Lefty is right...of course!

It sounds like there is some confusion about how to put slack in your leader (on purpose). A pile cast or parachute cast can accomplish this, but in no way involves introducing a tailing loop in your cast. In addition, a tuck cast introduces slack when nymphing.

http://www.orvis.com/news/fly-fishing/Tuesday-tip-pile-and-parachute-casts/

 

[OldLefty]

When one understands how, and when, power application will impact the cast one is well into the game.

Isn't it interesting that the explanation on the sexyloops site indicates "...as if to create a tailing loop on purpose..." The critical factor in the explanation is that it also says that "You've got to do all this smoothly." Both he and I are talking about a smooth, strong power application early in the stroke used to achieve the desired result. Again, the key word is smooth. It's the reason a tailing loop doesn't actually happen.

Remember, I stated that a tailing loop is caused by an abrupt application of power. The opposite of abrupt is smooth. Smooth power application, even when we say it is overpowered - as in when we throw a curve cast using the side arm technique - is very similar.

Sexyloops and I are in agreement.

 

[OldLefty]

Oh, and I agree that there's some confusion as to what contributes to a slack leader presentation.

 

[tomitrout]

When one understands how, and when, power application will impact the cast one is well into the game.

Exactly. Maybe I should have put quotes around "tailing loop" in my earlier post...you pro's always have a better handle on explaining these things. ;-)

Dave, you coming down to Allenberry anytime soon? We're having the casting comp during Heritage Day's if you haven't heard...

 

[OldLefty]

I'll be at Allenberry since I am usually available for casting instruction for Heritage Day. I may also bring my tying "stuff" that day, as well.

I don't know if I'll compete this year. I'm getting old for some of this. I consider having done what I did last year not for myself: it was for us old f...olks ;-)

 

[PhilC]

I hadn't checked that sexy loops site in a while...I used to go there all the time and learned a lot when I was starting out.
I remember this article and the path of the rod tip creating the tailing loop.
I always agreed on the concept of pull versus push. Many teach to push which I think takes energy out of the cast