What's Happening Here?

csoult

csoult

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To tie into another thread without taking it too far off topic.... Does anyone have any ideas on why Rainbows are reproducing at a higher rate, or, in areas that they were not reproducing before?

What has changed? Is it the strain of rainbows being stocked now that is allowing them to reproduce better. Has water quality gone up? Have climatic temperature shifts caused them fruitful in their reproduction? Do they just stock more rainbows now compared to before.

Mike, you may be able to answer these questions.

I don't know, but wild rainbows are surely being caught in streams that they traditionally have not had luck reproducing in before.
 
Yeah, in some of the more mountain-ish freestoners where they're stocked I've found them to be streaky spawners. They'll have a good year where a decent number of fish holdover and attempt to spawn, and then you'll catch some little Rainbows for a couple years. Not enough to sustain a population or compete with the other wild fish (mostly Browns) in these streams, but enough that you can catch them fairly consistently after they have a good year. Then they all but disappear for a few years. That said, I agree that in several streams I fish fairly regularly the Bows are on the "good" part of that cycle right now. I'd be interested to hear some of the science behind it too.
 
Just a few guesses.

1. Over time, the level of acid deposition (acid rain) has decreased considerably in this state.

2. Mine acid drainage streams are being cleaned up. Maybe not enough to hold wild rainbows, but enough to allow wild bows to travel, and settle new waterways. And I think rainbows travel more than other trout species.

3. They were always here and a) you're just becoming aware of it or b) the PFBC is finding the smallish populations they've not known about.

Of course there are exceptions, but overall, my view is that wild trout fishing is getting BETTER in this state, not worse.
 
pcray1231 wrote:
Of course there are exceptions, but overall, my view is that wild trout fishing is getting BETTER in this state, not worse.

I would agree with this, especially in my county.
 
I agree. Rainbows are becoming overwhelmingly concentrated in areas where browns were dominant. We have been catching more rainbows on LJ and Spruce than browns. And our buddy has not been stocking that area much if any at all anymore.
 
butch645xzm wrote:
I agree. Rainbows are becoming overwhelmingly concentrated in areas where browns were dominant. We have been catching more rainbows on LJ and Spruce than browns. And our buddy has not been stocking that area much if any at all anymore.

Not only there, which I find to be the case also, but in SC too.

Edit: So there's not confusion I meant that to be Spring Creek.
 
pcray1231 wrote:
Just a few guesses.

1. Over time, the level of acid deposition (acid rain) has decreased considerably in this state.

2. Mine acid drainage streams are being cleaned up. Maybe not enough to hold wild rainbows, but enough to allow wild bows to travel, and settle new waterways. And I think rainbows travel more than other trout species.

3. They were always here and a) you're just becoming aware of it or b) the PFBC is finding the smallish populations they've not known about.

Of course there are exceptions, but overall, my view is that wild trout fishing is getting BETTER in this state, not worse.

Some good thoughts - I'd agree, esp the general observation that wild trout fishing is getting better. I think this is true statewide but it's esp pronounced in the Cumberland Valley. It isn't happening across the board.....but generally speaking we're experiencing a wild trout boom here in the CV unlike anything I've seen in my lifetime (this isn't just rainbows however).
 
With the few PFBC bought rainbows from NC there seems to be more of them reproducing, so the strain from NC is a bit different. While acid deposition is less, it will be years before there is much difference in acidity of the buffering to be reduced, that's not to say it hasn't impacted streams, it probably has for high water events.
Many streams have not been surveyed before or it's been a long time since they were last surveyed so there have been changes in what PFBC has found. Many streams have rainbows reproducing for a few years and you catch them, and then the population declines because there wasn't enough diversity and they die off.
This has happened several times at Cold Run in Schuylkill County, where for one survey PFBC found Golden Rainbows had reproduced. They are gone, but there are a few wild rainbows there, that I fully expect to disappear over the next few years. Many streams are naturally acidic and will never get boost from reduced acid deposition so things aren't like to chnge in those streams.
I don't think it's a good thing for rainbows to be increasing populations even if it is a short term event, they aren't native, they impact native species in a negative way. That in and of itself makes it bad thing.
 
csoult wrote:
pcray1231 wrote:
Of course there are exceptions, but overall, my view is that wild trout fishing is getting BETTER in this state, not worse.

I would agree with this, especially in my county.

Agreed, or I'm just paying better attention to it.
 
csoult wrote:
butch645xzm wrote:
I agree. Rainbows are becoming overwhelmingly concentrated in areas where browns were dominant. We have been catching more rainbows on LJ and Spruce than browns. And our buddy has not been stocking that area much if any at all anymore.

Not only there, which I find to be the case also, but in SC too.

Edit: So there's not confusion I meant that to be Spring Creek.

All I could catch in the lower section of Spring was wild bows. I wad pleasantly surprised.
 
If i have my facts straight, Rainbows tolerate warm water the best. I vaguely remember a biology professor in college saying that since the earth's temperature is warming species ranges are gradually shifting to the north in order to find more suitable temps. He described as a broad biological phenomenom. just a guess ?
 
I'm not sure that you have your facts straight.

From what I have seen, regarding LETHAL temperatures, browns and bows are in the same range, and it's highly dependent on the exact strain. For instance rainbows from say, the firehole river, may tolerate higher temperatures than rainbows from colder rivers. But overall, no, I don't think they are appreciably better than browns. Brookies do need colder temps than either.

However, the preferred temperature range for rainbows is cooler than it is for browns. That's why, in streams where both are stocked, the early season fishing is dominated by rainbows, as they become active in colder temps.
 
How do you tell the difference btwn a stocked and wild bow?
Is it just by location?
 
Really the only way that you can tell for sure is by the size. Some of the bows being caught on LJ and Spring have been small (5-7") and unless clubs are stocking them (illegal, unless in tribs) they have to be wild.
 
Stagger, w/ bows, in my experience, its the hardest to tell especially with hold overs.

For me, I base my judgment on the location of the fish (is it a stream that I know isn't stocked?), or size. For instance, Swattie and Fox found a small 'bow (fingerling) on a stream that has wild browns and native brookies, and is also stocked w/ adult rainbows. No fingerlings were stocked on this stream, so we're pretty certain what we got there was a wild bow. Plus, you know, fin condition and all that.
 
I use size, location, and parr marks as my indicators. I was fooled once on a local stream I fished, because I did not know about a pipe that ran under a town for a mile that came from a hatchery. Little rainbows were escaping through the pipe.
 
I believe that stocked fish have one of the fins removed.

And one of the truths of the subject in concern is that we really don't know what is native anymore. Presidents to people unknowingly have transported fish (lots of trout/bass etc.) from various regions to other regions just because they liked to catch that particular fish. Shipping lanes have brought in unwanted guests. People have emptied rivers and lakes of native fish over hundreds of years just for food then restocked them with what ever. Even in the ocean these days your chances of catching stocked flounder or tuna in the near future are getting greater.

Some of the most recent invasive fish species are Snake Heads and Asian Carp. But are these fish invasive or native?
Parting Thoughts:
If Atlantis was where the books say it was, and where they think it is now!! Our world really has turned upside down and may one day do it again. Thus the displacement of all species starts all over again.

 
Yeah, I agree Bows are the toughest to tell. Fresh stocker Bows are pretty obvious, but once they live in the stream for a while they're tough to tell. Location, size, and fin condition are probably the three best things to go by...in that relative order.

In my experience legit wild Bows tend to have a bright pink, red or even almost purple stripe over a very light colored body. Colored up stockers tend to have an almost orange stripe to them and their overall flank tones are darker. I'm sure diet/water clarity/season and all the usual stuff affects this and by no means is it accurate, just an observation.
 
PennypackFlyer wrote:
I believe that stocked fish have one of the fins removed.

That's not always the case, and usually isn't actually. If it's a stream where they're conducting a study to track stocked fish movement, the impact of a fingerling stocking program, or stocked vs. wild fish populations, etc then yeah they usually remove the adipose fin. In the vast majority of normal stockings however, the fish have all their fins...they may be worn or frayed from living in the raceways, but they're not clipped.
 
Becker,

Par marks is a pretty good indicator of age. And only in that way is it any indicator of origin. But stocked fingerlings, for instance, do have parr marks.

Swattie,

It depends a lot on the stream. I know of wild bows in one part of the state that tend to be very silver, with no stripe, at least at certain times of the year.

I agree bows are the toughest to tell. I don't think anyone, for instance, can reliably distinguish between a grown up fingerling and an adult wild bow. Fin condition is about the only reliable physical indicator. And after that it's just guesswork based on size and location, but that can be fairly accurate in more cases than not.
 
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