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2006/11/2 8:50
Posts: 1704
Re: "The more exclusionary you make things the less participants there will be and the cost per participant will rise to the point where just a few people are paying for the whole pie.
I know it's winter and it's been tough to get out and go fishing for a couple of weeks for many people, but it's about time we realize that the 100 or so participants on this board represent only a minute fraction of PA fishermen."

C&R streams like Penns Creek, Spring Cr, Little J, Fishing Cr, Yellow Breeches and Slate Run are so popular that people constantly complain about the crowding. Yellowstone Park is largely C&R and that is a very popular fishing destination.

Lots of bass fisherman fish C&R now.

I don't think the miniscule minority idea holds true any more.

Posted on: 2007/2/20 21:38

2006/9/9 9:29
From Monessen, PA
Posts: 2840
In my opinion, it is selfish to expect everyone to give up harvesting wild trout so as to maximize the catch-and-release entertainment value for the rest of us. Both interests can be accomodated with proper regulations. We can disagree with where the limitations are set, but I think that anyone "with half a brain" should be able to understand that some level of allowable harvest can be consistent with preserving the viability of a wild fishery.

Posted on: 2007/2/20 21:40
"If you see the Buddha in the road, please slow down and see if she is OK." OK?

-- Me

2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
Posts: 2841
Ditto what Jack said.....C&R and catch & keep can coexist if the proper regulations are in place and enforced. In other words, the answer is somewhat in the middle of both views, which is usually the case, IMO. The only argument should be how to regulate to accommodate both C&R and C&K. I believe that many, including the PFBC, underestimate the attraction of a good quality fishing stream with C&R or restricted harvest regulations. Build it and they will come! Check out the parking areas along nearly every special regulation trout section of our streams!

The financial reality is that the PFBC does not have the money to continue to maintain hatcheries at a high level to stock trout. The resource must be stretched out to get more with less. Wild trout is a renewable “resource”. Preserve and enhance the wild trout, and stock where appropriate. The PFBC has no choice but to move in that direction from my point of view.

Ps. Tim - I was born and raised in West Pittston, in the Wyoming Valley between Wilkes-Barre and Scranton.

Posted on: 2007/2/21 9:40


2006/12/7 18:13
Posts: 273
I have a stupid question: why do hunters almost universally feel that managing the herd or flock by selective harvest is essential to good hunting but we fly fisherman feel we MUST practice total C&R?

I don't keep any fish by choice not guilt; but I really don't see the harm in well managed harvest. I fish almost exclusively in wild trout streams where harvest is permitted, often times with no special regs. I have been fishing in these places for more than 20 years and to be honest, the biggest impact in my catch rates and fish size has been due to pollution or flooding not over harvest.

I think a lot of fly fishers go through a stage where after reading all the books, articles, and hearing all of the impassioned soap box speeches; they believe that anybody who harvests is a barbarian and should be stripped of the long rod. I know I did when I first started. Now I realize that as long as there are fishermen, some of them will actually fish for FOOD, imagine that!

I like the old PFBC slogan, "Don't catch your limit, limit your catch". Assuming everyone will embrace total C&R and the state will subsequently legislate it is a fantasy.

Posted on: 2007/2/21 10:28


2006/9/14 10:34
From Southeast PA
Posts: 3
Not that I totally disagree with everything you say, Bamboozle, but there is a big difference between hunting and fishing. You can't have success at hunting if you don't actually kill something, but you can when fishing. Unless maybe they start to hunt with high-powered paint balls. But that wouldn't be a good idea for bear hunting. Anyway, I don't know of many situations where wild trout populations would be improved by culling.

Posted on: 2007/2/21 12:33
"It ain't the meat, it's the motion"


2006/12/7 18:13
Posts: 273

I respect your opinion but...

While I agree success in hunting is about killing; killing in hunting has nothing to do with the selective harvest analogy; it's about improving the survival rates for the other animals in regards to food supply, shelter, breeding etc. Better stock means better quality; bigger, stronger, etc. and that's everything in hunting. I don't hunt by the way so I only know what my hunting friends and Ted Nugent tell me.

While I'm no fisheries biologist; I find it impossible to believe that wild trout are the only species of fish that wouldn't see increased size, numbers and improvement in overall genetics if selective harvest is practiced. It works for WILD bass, WILD sunfish and just about every other of species of naturally reproducing gamefish.

On those brookie streams where there are 100 2" fish to every hole; is that the optimum fishing experience because many of us, including me don't mind catching a slew of 2" fish on occasion or is because with a decrease in natural predation and harvest there just ain't enough food, cover, spawning territory, etc available to enable some of those little guys to grow into the 10" monsters we all HOPE we may tie into.

I believe the latter and while I DON'T practice what I preach; I just happen to think the many of the fly fishing for trout community has a holier than thou attitude regarding C&R with opinions based more on romance than science.

Posted on: 2007/2/21 13:56


2006/11/4 20:39
Posts: 0

TimMurphy wrote:
Dear flyman,

At the risk of getting too many conversations going at once, why shoot a wild turkey when better tasting ones are available 24/7/365 at your local mega-supermarket?

Likewise, why pick wild blueberries, or raspberries, or chestnuts when you can buy them? Aren't you depriving all the pretty birds and animals of an important food source?

I'm not singling you out, but I think there is a growing group of fisherman that need to be reminded that fishing, even catch and release fishing, is very much a blood sport and the very act of fishing is detrimental to the fish to one degree or another.

Tim Murphy

Touche Tim,
Point taken, as long as it is within the law, no harm done. I just like my wild trout swimming in ice water, not butter.

Posted on: 2007/2/23 22:00

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