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WHY?

Joined:
2006/9/11 13:05
From Lewistown
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I probably know this answer, but it doesn't pacify me as a just answer.

Why do people harvest native brook trout?

A) they aren't real large
B) people can't be totally oblivious to the severity of removing 5 brookies every trip.

Can someone please give me good responce.

Posted on: 2007/2/17 12:18


Re: WHY?
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2006/9/9 9:29
From Monessen, PA
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They taste good. They are easy to catch. Many people do not care whether their actions have a negative impact on others. But, you already knew that. Next question.

Posted on: 2007/2/17 13:13
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Re: WHY?

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2006/9/18 8:28
From Attitudinally, one mile south of Lake LeBoeuf
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There are a number of reasons, IMO..

Here are just a couple:

First, I think it is a simple matter of valuation of a given thing, much like somebody else might cherish a nicer Tiffany Lamp, a better cigar or a bigger bronze bust of Aristotle or a Rolling Stones ticket...:) Some value brook trout as this beautiful indigenous fish with exacting habitat reqm'ts. Others simply like the way they taste. I think it is important to remember that in a healthy brook trout stream, it really is pretty difficult to fish a population out. It is possible (although perhaps not as often as some might contend, IMO) to remove most of the quality individuals from a given ST pop. To you and I, this latter is an awful thing. To others, when the next Spring arirves and there are pretty good numbers of 7 and 8 inch fish once again, that's good enough for them (or at least as much valuation as they are inclined to give the matter).

I think a second thing that goes on, in portions of PA at least, is that small stream fishing for brook trout is the closest and most accessible fishing to be found. I grew up in southern Erie County. When I was a kid, there were lots of bluegill, perch and crappie everywhere I turned and close by too. These were the fish I cut my angling teeth on. But for a kid from Emporium, St. Marys or someplace like that, brook trout take the place of my bluegills and crappie.

So, there's that too..

I think it's mostly the valuation thing though. When we get haughty, we sometimes call this the need for "education". But what it really is about is preference.

Posted on: 2007/2/17 13:27


Re: WHY?

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2006/9/14 10:34
From Southeast PA
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I thought that was a good question. And good answers. Here's a question that I have: HOW MANY? I was kind of surprised when I first heard that some like to harvest and eat brook trout hor doeurves. To what extent is this done? Is it real common in some areas? Is it done constantly? I know it's hard to give hard numbers, but can anyone give an idea of how much this happens?

Posted on: 2007/2/17 14:36
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Re: WHY?

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Quote:

Wulff-Man wrote:
Here's a question that I have: HOW MANY?


According to PFBC creel surveys on wild trout streams, about 4% of the legal sized trout get harvested or 25,000 fish. About 75% of stocked trout get harvested but since half of those streams also hold wild fish, there’s no telling how many of them are included in that number. The search function on the PFBC web site is not working for me right now, but the files are creel2004_wild.pdf and creel2005_stocked.pdf.

The interesting part of their creel survey is most angler’s don’t have one. 94% of the fisherman on wild streams and 63% of the ones on stocked streams are strictly C&R. That’s a big change from when I was a kid and some folks believed a stream full of brookies were stunted and harvesting them would improve the fishing.

Posted on: 2007/2/19 18:38


Re: WHY?

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2006/9/9 20:09
From Harrisburg
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Dear Gone4Day,

Creels went out of style in the late 60's and early 70's.

Real brook trout anglers go retro and use a forked stick.

Regards,
Tim Murphy

Posted on: 2007/2/20 7:45


Re: WHY?
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2006/9/9 19:16
From Dallastown, PA
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Quote:

TimMurphy wrote:
Dear Gone4Day,

Creels went out of style in the late 60's and early 70's.

Real brook trout anglers go retro and use a forked stick.

Regards,
Tim Murphy


I use those handy plastic grocery sacks...you can git more brookies in them and stuff them down your pant leg.

Seriously, just like the guy who shoots 4 and 6 deer (legally or illegally) and then complains the game commiss is the reason for there being no deer. There are guys out there who feel that harvest is their satisfaction for fishing. Some really consume the food, some just like to carry it home with the hopes of finding self actualization through it.

I like to get up close and personal with these types...when I see people harvesting trout, especially on my home stream, I ask to see their catch and admire the stocked trout complimenting them on their catch. If I see wild or holdover trout in the bunch, I point them out and some of the characteristics that make them special. Most are interested in learning something new...and even dismayed that they killled them....but that isn't the objective. The objective is education. Some on the otherhand point them out first and say they like them better cuz the meat is orange.

Just like there are differnet minded anglers regarding creeling and it amazes us. For you it is amazing that people can harvest native brook trout and not understand the impact of their actions.

For me I can't understand how folks who flyfish or fish in general for trout, don't help more with conservation activities. The world take all kinds...and it is through information and education that we can swing it in the direction that better suits us. Then there are those that just don't care. The ignorance I can deal with...its the apothy that irritate me.

Maurice

Posted on: 2007/2/20 8:14
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Re: WHY?

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2006/11/2 8:50
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Disregard that PFBC study, it's more full of holes than Swiss cheese.

A great deal of harvest of brook trout goes on. Mostly in the early season, and particularly on opening weekend. And some after summer thunderstorms. Almost every brook trout stream's population is affected by this cropping.

There a very few streams that aren't affected much by angler harvest, for reasons I won't explain. I had the good fortune to fish a few of these, and it's like night and day compared to "regular" brook trout streams. There's just a whole lot more of the larger brookies in the streams that don't get hit.

If you are really interested in learning about harvest on brook trout streams, you have to actually go out to different brook trout streams on opening weekend. After you do that some years, you'll see that the brookie streams are getting hit.

You learn about this stuff by actually fishing brookie streams a lot, particularly on opening weekend. These studies are a joke. They send some college kid out there with a clipboard. But the hard-cores will see there's some kind of study going on, and just go to some other stream. As soon as they see the vehicle they'll go somewhere else. They're not out there to talk to somebody with a clipboard. They're out there to get some brookies for the pan.

The only anglers who will talk to the clipboard toters are people like us, the C&R flyfishers, who are proud to tell them that we fish C&R.

This is the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle at work. You can't conduct a study without the study affecting the thing you are trying to measure. At least I think that's the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. I'm not completely certain, though.

Posted on: 2007/2/20 10:20


Re: WHY?

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2007/1/2 11:55
From Bozeman
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LOL. i read that as the "harrisburg uncertainty principal".

oh boy.

The H.U.P. states that you can't know both the position and velocity of a subatomic particle at the same time. Knowing onewith great accuracy means that you sacrifice accurace of knowledge about the other.

Posted on: 2007/2/20 10:31


Re: WHY?

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2007/1/2 11:55
From Bozeman
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btw... just out of curiosity, i did a little research.

you were referring to the "observer effect", which was incorrectly called the H.U.P. by the guy in Jurassic Park. lol... i thought i heard that somewhere before!

Posted on: 2007/2/20 10:36


Re: WHY?

Joined:
2006/9/11 13:05
From Lewistown
Posts: 3614
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Personally, I just hope these morons are too clumbsy to sneek up on the brookies.

Posted on: 2007/2/20 11:21
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Re: WHY?

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Re: "Harrisburg Uncertainty Principle"

That's a good one! I'll have to remember that.

Then there's the "Highway Uncertainty Principle." This relates to winter travel on PA's interstate highways!!!

Posted on: 2007/2/20 11:29


Re: WHY?

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Quote:

MKern wrote:
Personally, I just hope these morons are too clumbsy to sneek up on the brookies.


I think it's unfair to call them morons. The legal limit on these streams is 5 fish per day, minimum size 7 inches. From what I've seen most of them do follow these rules. The rules are just inappropriate for these fragile fisheries.

And it's wishful thinking to hope that these guys can't catch them. Brookies aren't very hard to catch. These guys usually fish when the water is up and a little off-color. Then they drift a worm down through. Needless to say, this works.

Posted on: 2007/2/20 11:50


Re: WHY?

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2007/1/2 11:55
From Bozeman
Posts: 19932
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Quote:

MKern wrote:
Personally, I just hope these morons are too clumbsy to sneek up on the brookies.


While I agree with your hopes...

It's not fair to call them morons. This goes along with the afore-mentioned education points. Not all of these people know better, and some feel just fine knowing that they are operating within the law. I feel that the state should do something to protect these streams.... but... the harrisburg uncertainty principal .

Once the streams are protected by law, we can call the fishkillers morons.

:::takes bite of sandwich filled with meat:::
I like to think of it from the standpoint of a vegetarian...
:::another bite:::
They probably think I'm a moron for killing and eating animals in general, not just special little brook trout.
:::wipes mouth:::
you just have to try to understand where people are coming from, i guess.

Posted on: 2007/2/20 12:01


Re: WHY?

Joined:
2006/9/14 20:03
Posts: 259
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Quote:

TimMurphy wrote:
Dear Gone4Day,

Creels went out of style in the late 60's and early 70's.

Real brook trout anglers go retro and use a forked stick.

Regards,
Tim Murphy


Touché. Fishing fads may come and go but the good ol’ fork stick never seems to go out of style. And the bulge in the game pocket of my fishing vest, I’ll give ya three guesses and the first two don’t count....

Posted on: 2007/2/20 22:29
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