The west is the best.

[jayL]

The west is the best
Get here, and well do the rest

The blue bus is callin us
The blue bus is callin us
Driver, where you taken us.


oops, sidetracked. Sorry.

Ok, after reading the other thread with mention to some famous montana streams, I decided to get some input on this one.

I was taught to fly fish by a man that many consider to be highly skilled. He traveled alot, and fished all over the country. Whenever I'd talk about going west some day, he told me that it was just as good here. He also said that the west was "too easy" to fish.

So... what do y'all think. Is it that much "easier" to catch trout out there? Do we have some of the most "technical" fishing here, like I was told?

This has no bearing on whether I travel out there to fish or not. I'm going to eventually, and that's all there is to it. I just wanted to hear the opinions of the board.

 

[tomgamber]

To over simplify it I think that the west is just bigger and has more places that have not been impacted by development, YET.

You can go more places and find amazing fishing that, at some times, can be easier. They can also frustrat4e the hell out of you when you see hundreds of fish that, at times, want nothing to do with your fly. Many of these places are three hours or more apart. Here you might be able to hit several of them in a single day.

In 5 years I rarely left just the southwest portion of the state and fished most places only once.

And that was with between 200 and 250 days of fishing year.
I fish less here but I wasn't married w/children back then either.

With that said, one of the only places I would have ever left Idaho for was right here in PA.

If I lived in say (and god forbid) Nebraska, and had a choice for where to spend a week fishing...family aside... I would pick Idaho. Because I live here, and the fishing is good here, I'm not as motivated to travel that far to fish.

 

[Acristickid]

The scenery is usually great for one thing!

I like going to new places, it's exciting and can be challeging- just something different to look forward to. Fun times with your fishing buddies.

I guess bigger water less pressure. Not like Spring or Breeches.

 

[Bruno]

The West is a big place. I would not consider the whole the best. Are certain spots great ? Yes . Others suck just like hear. I think that there are more opportunities here than there. Like Tom said it is not 3 hrs to each river here. I was in Montana a couple of years ago and people we down right shocked that there was good trout fishing in PA. It is all a matter of what you are looking for. You read stories about monster trout in fish porn mags and get the feeling that every fish out there is that big. Think about what you have here in PA. You have the opportunity to fish for trout / salmon / bass/ steelhead / saltwater all within easy driving distance. Try that in Colorado ………………..

 

[JeffK]

Thats a complicated question.

More undeveloped land, but some of the popular spots are just as crowded as those back East. Look for pictures of the Texas Hole on the San Juan. Then again, you can really get away from it all in less crowded areas.

Most of the mountain west gets about 20" of rain, so the rivers are about an hour apart. Not like the Lehigh Valley, State College area, Potter Co, etc where there are all sorts of choices. Once in Wyoming I was talking to a guy who said he was lucky to be in the middle of all the trout water - he had a stream 1 hour away in each direction. A 1 hour drive from most places in PA will bring a dozen or more choices.

Local knowledge. I commonly catch more fish near home than in famous waters out west because I am less familiar with the western waters. However, some days it is just crazy out west.

Scenery. I really love fishing in the Rockies or the desert/east slope of the Sierras since the scenery and the terrain is so different than what I deal with every day. But I am always glad to get back home where it is green when I am done.

Finally the fish. It is cool to catch cutthroats, goldens, bull trout, and grayling for a change of pace. But I am a homebody and wild browns and brookies are still my favorites.

I enjoy the west but always come home back east.

 

[JeffK]

In my travels I have come to resent the term "technical " fishing.

Every fishermen gets real good at fishing his home waters. Sometimes the techniques translate, sometimes they do not.

One the Delaware tailwaters the locals get a great reach cast for fishing dries - works well most places for dries. In some Northern Rocky streams the big trout locals are streamer pros and the reach cast wouldn't buy you much. Those Western guys will catch big meat-eating browns in the Delaware with their streamer skills, but may be out of it when the sulphurs start hatching.

Generally the more skills you have the better you will travel, but no one is expert in everything and most fly guys are real good at least one technique or they don't fly fish very long.

 

[jayL]

Jeff,

I don't like the term either. That's why I used the quotes. I was trying to get across the point, but didn't know a better way to effectively communicate it.

 

[tomgamber]

JeffK wrote:
Those Western guys will catch big meat-eating browns in the Delaware with their streamer skills, but may be out of it when the sulphurs start hatching.

I'm not sure where you come to this conclusion but I would call it an outright fallacy. I rarely if ever had to use streamers anywhere but out of the float tube on lakes and sometimes not even there. I fished probably 80% dries out west. I probably fish 60% here. I'm not sure why you thing they don't fish dries but it sounds like you have a very limited experience when it comes to fishing out west.

I think that some of the eastern fishermen might have some trouble fishing dries out there where they may have to cast 2 and 3 times as far as they are used to here...its just different.

Someone mentioned the San Juan...its man made oasis in the middle of a desert. I would expect it to be crowded. Kind of like some the Arkansas and Tennesee tailwaters...with a couple of exceptions most of the water I fished out there was snowpack dependent.

The exceptions would be the north, and south forks of the Boise and the Boise thru downtown, where at the right time you can catch 4 species of trout, steelhead and salmon (most stockies of course but many holdovers ans some wild rainbows and browns...) and smallmouth and whitefish...but there is more than 200 miles of that river alone...and I have never been crowded...

Now a place like Silver creek can get down right close. Especially near decent access and bridges. of course just like here you only have to explore a little to find your own water. But don't show up there without any dries...Its just very different and very large.

...heck you can even climb up a mountain and catch wild brookies if you know where to find them.

 

[tomgamber]

Bruno wrote:
Try that in Colorado ………………..

Frankly I think the better fishing is on the western slope because fo the added opportunity of anadromous fish. Anything that flows west, eventually, is pretty good fishing...

 

[flybop]

Having grown up a fly fishing addict in Pa, and now living in Paradise Valley, Montana I like having this discussion. As to whether the fishing is easer here the answer is yes, and no. Yes, the Cutthroat are relatively easier to catch than other species. But, they are not quite as easy as stocked rainbows.

To compare apples to apple this is in regards to wild fish in Pa., there are no stocked trout in moving water in Montana. Over the long run and over a variety of waters I would have to say that the fishing is marginally easier in Montana. There are of course exceptions in each direction. Depuy's has a reputation of being super "technical", but it can also be very easy, once you get to know it. This is true to any water. The more local kowelege you have, the "easier" things can be.

Some of the toughest trout I fished over were in Pa., the Little Lehigh at times and Valley Creek. Those guys can be tough, which makes them fun. The toughest fish I faced in Montana were the big, fat rainbows in Nelson's Spring Creek during a blanket pmd hatch. There were simply too many bugs. Day in and day out Penns has a reputation for being tough. Since Penns was basically my home water in Pa. I can agree with that. I tell my clients from back east that if they can go and catch trout regularly in Penns that they can handle just about any stream/river in Montana.

Someone mentioned the streamer addicts out west and how they, we, only know how to chuck and duck. On the big rivers I do most of my boat fishing with big streamers and sink tips. I get my dry fly fix on the spring creeks and the mountain streams. One of the guys who runs a shop I guide for is a true dry fly snob and he does not hide his disdain for streamer and nymph fishermen. One of the best days I had last fall was giving this guy a dry fly lesson during a baetis, bwo, hatch on Depuy's. Now he keeps his streamer comments to himself.

Here is my big picture answer. There is a learning curve when you come from Pa, or the east in general, and fish out here. The rivers are bigger and intimidating. The flies and overall tactics are often different. Fishing from a drift boat takes some time to get the hang of. You can rather easily get away from the crowds here with just a little effort. The scenery is often amazing. I still stare at the mountains and pinch myself every single day.

If you plan a trip to Montana just keep an open mind. Things are different and those who adapt quickly have a better time. If you fish with a guide for your own benefit listen to them. Believe me, we want all of our clients to catch fish, we are not playing head games with you.

If I could not live in Montana I would live where I used to in central Pa. Pa. is a very pretty state and has some great fly fishing. That is why everytime I come home I have a fly rod with me. My Montana buddies do not understand, but you guys do. Here is one that the guys out here give me hell for: Penns creek browns, and those in other Pa streams, fight harder than the browns in the Yellowstone and Madison. Also, my biggest trout ever came from a special stream in Pa that has huge wild browns in it.

If anyone has any questions about fishing here feel free to shoot me an email. I always like to help anyone coming out here, especially guys from Pa. If you are going to be out here let's get together and fish. My buddy and I often have a seat open in the boat for a late afternoon dark thirty take out and a few extra beers.

 

[JackM]

I've been told that Harrison Ford travels to Nemecolin a few times a year to fish the Youghiogheny River, so go figger.

 

[RLeeP]

I think it's all relative and the notion of any one area being any more difficult or easy overall is all but impossible to support or even, really, to assert with a straight face.

I believe that the Metolius in Oregon, Lost Cove Creek in western NC, the West Br. of the White River in Wisconsin and Penns Creek in PA are all (or can be) pretty difficult streams. But out of all these, only the Metolius has yet to yield to the simple learning process of coming to know a stream, at least for me. It's a son-of-a-pup, IMO

But, I don't think any of them, even the Metolius, are as "difficult" as a little Class A brown trout stream that flows through the NW PA valley where my grandfather had his farm 75 years ago.

So, it's all relative IMO. Not to mention being heavily influenced by the "any given day" rule..

 

[RLeeP]

>The west is the best
Get here, and well do the rest

The blue bus is callin us
The blue bus is callin us
Driver, where you taken us.>

Now you did it... I can't get that out of my head.

"The killer awoke before dawn. He put his boots on. He took a face from the ancient gallery and he..."

Thanks a bunch...

 

[brookie]

I really doubt you can compare the two because better habitat=better trout populations and bigger trout as well. I think that if you took all the biased views and scrapped them it would come out west is far better troutwise than the east no matter what anybody says. It all comes down to geography in my book. As far as being easier, I guess it would be because out there you have lots and lots of freestone streams that are nice and open which makes for easier casting and they stay cold year round. Here in the east there are quite a few good freestone streams but good ones are tucked away and very small with dense canopies making for difficult approaches and difficult casts. The quality streams in the east that are open are usually too warm or are limestone, so the options are finicky or stocked, out west I bet the options are far more substantial.

 

[flybop]

RleeP, I was speaking of a very general, overall comparison. The Cutthroat out here are not that difficult, especially on the Yellowstone river. Yes, the Cuts in the Park, Lamar and Slough for example, get pounded heavily and get more selective later in the summer.

The dry fly fishing on the Yellowstone overall is not the multiple stages of multiple bugs that you are often confronted with on streams back east. Of course there are far too many variables to say that for every fishermen that x or y place is easier or tougher. However, with over twenty years of about 100 to 150 days per year on Pa streams and seven years of about 150 days a year on many Montana rivers I feel that I can make a broad generalization comparing the two places. This is in agreement with many others who have extensive experience both in the west and in the east.

Another example of a very easy to fish Montana river is the Big Horn. Any moderately decent nymph fisherman can have a hey day there. The dry fly fishing can be tricky, but there are so many fish that the balance tips.

You are totally right about the any given day on any given stream caveat. There are exeptions. Like I said, I am talking about the big picture over many waters over a season.

 

[RLeeP]

>RleeP, I was speaking of a very general, overall comparison. >

Hi there, Mr. Flybop...

Actually, I was basically agreeing with you when you said:


"As to whether the fishing is easer here the answer is yes, and no. "

This is why I said it is subjective.

Cheers!

RLP

 

[flybop]

Rleep, I have that Doors song in my head too. When I first moved to Montana back in the early 80's the two other guys and I had a theme song for our great escape. It was Canned Heat's "Going Up the Country".

 

[afishinado]

East or West? Both are great. I have fished out west quite a few times, most times in Montana. I agree with Flybop, as a general rule, the fishing is a little easier out west and the average wild fish is bigger. Many rivers out west have less fishing pressure and some rivers have on the average more fish / mile.

Flybop, I’ve fished both Depuys and Armstrongs (but never Nelsons) spring creeks quite a bit - the fish are a piece of cake when compared to say Valley Creek or the Letort. The one thing I can’t explain is that the fish are far less spooky out west. When I first fished the spring creeks out west I peaked through the bushes and fished from my knees like I do at home. Every one who saw me fishing that way just laughed. I began to stand in clear view of the fish and still caught them. Around here one wrong move and every fish in the pool will scurry for cover – not so out west for the most part. Does anyone have any theory as to why that is?

The scenery out west is breathtaking – it’s worth the trip. PA is one of the most scenic states back east, and as someone else mentioned, compared to out west PA has a lot more diverse fishing opportunities. I love both places.

 

[albatross]

Don't get many of these back East...

 

[jayL]

Unreal.

For what it's worth, the consensus is about what I figured it would be. PA is fine to live, but I gotta visit the west.