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Re: The Ultimate Brookie Box?

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Quote:

ryansheehan wrote:
Quote:

troutbert wrote:
There was an article back in the early 1990s or so by a skilled PA flyfisher about brookie fishing that was really good.

It mentioned all of the standard truisms about brookie fishing:

1) You only need short casts.

2) You only short, stout leaders.

3) It makes no difference what fly you use.

Then said: these things are all wrong. People say these things a lot, but they simply don't match what we've seen on the brookie streams.

I read that and thought, EXACTLY! I've always been puzzled by those statements too. They never seemed right to me.

Medium and even long casts are often useful.

Medium and long leaders are often useful.

And the type of fly can often make a huge difference. So it's good to carry a good variety. It's important to have some different "categories" of flies:

Big Bushies: Whether that's Stimulators or something else, like a Humpy, isn't so important, but it's important to have some in this general category, for high and/or broken water.

Parachutes: Extremely versatile, work well in a wide range of conditions. From pretty low through the medium flows to pretty high. Very good when there are mayflies around. And there are often are some, sometimes a lot. Not all brookie streams are infertile. Two main body color variations are needed: Mediumish (hares ear tan) Lightish: Yellow

Elkhair caddis - Because...you gotta have EHC. I don't think you need many variations though. Tan body. Size 14 and 16. That'll do it, but put a lot of those in the box.

Terrestrials - In the summer and early fall, when the water gets low and clear, terrestrials will usually outfish anything else. Ants, beetles, inchworms.

Subsurface: Standard streamer, wetfly, and nymph patterns. No need to get fancy or carry lots of them, but just carry some of the standards, for when the brookies aren't hitting on top.


So basically the fly doesn't matter.........


What are you doing? Explain yourself.

Posted on: 10/12 20:39


Re: The Ultimate Brookie Box?

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From Burke VA
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I thought it was self explanatory but I guess not. You're writing that you need different categories of flies but not specific ones. When people say the fly doesn't matter that is EXACTLY what we mean. I think you are taking that statement way to literal. Bring generic versatile patterns(just as you described)and you will be fine. You're not going to need to switch from a 20 comparadun to a parachute to be successful. That situation is where the fly does matter. Fox brings up a good point about big spring brookies they are a different animal.

Posted on: 10/12 22:00


Re: The Ultimate Brookie Box?

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Except that they murder Chernobyl ants there haha

Posted on: 10/13 0:18


Re: The Ultimate Brookie Box?

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Trying to picture those spooky BS Brook Trout coming up in that clear water and fighting over a Chernobyl Ant.
Maybe? Is that the new go to fly at BS? I'll have to buy some. Do you fish them on 3x? Fluoro or nylon?

Posted on: 10/13 7:27
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Re: The Ultimate Brookie Box?

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I have a buddy that fishes them a lot, and does well there. Some will laugh or not believe me, but he usually uses either 3 or 4x nylon, on a shooting taper flyline. He catches some nice fish on the Letort with that rig too lol. It's basically a hopper I guess. I can't say whether it's a go to fly, as I've moved a little further away, and between the extra drive time and stream changes there, I don't go out of my way to fish it much anymore.

I wasn't a believer in "secret flies" before I started hanging out with him, but he has showed me some patterns over the years that he ties for specific waters, and they work where intended.

Posted on: 10/13 9:08


Re: The Ultimate Brookie Box?

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Quote:

ryansheehan wrote:
I thought it was self explanatory but I guess not. You're writing that you need different categories of flies but not specific ones. When people say the fly doesn't matter that is EXACTLY what we mean. I think you are taking that statement way to literal. Bring generic versatile patterns(just as you described)and you will be fine. You're not going to need to switch from a 20 comparadun to a parachute to be successful. That situation is where the fly does matter. Fox brings up a good point about big spring brookies they are a different animal.


Thanks for the explanation.

And I agree that in brookie fishing you're "You're not going to need to switch from a 20 comparadun to a parachute to be successful."

But there are times when switching from a #12 Adams to a #12 deer-hair beetle will increase your catch enormously. Like ten-fold. Day and night difference.

Posted on: 10/13 10:48


Re: The Ultimate Brookie Box?

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Don't mind me I'm just having a meltdown about that Chernobyl Ant.

The Brook Trout in Big Fishing Creek can be as selective as Brown Trout at times. I've seen them eating BWOs or stoneflies and that is what they want.... Patriots, EHC, Royal Coachmen be damned.

If trout were always easy fly fishing would not be as fun.

Posted on: 10/13 12:35
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Re: The Ultimate Brookie Box?

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I really like Stimulators #12-#14 in yellow, tan, or royal. Klinkhammers with fluor orange, pink or green posts in #14, Cracklebacks #12-#14, Hi-Vis Adams #14, Hot Spot Foam Bettles, Mickey Finns and Miniature Beadhead Woolybuggers.

Posted on: 10/13 16:16


Re: The Ultimate Brookie Box?

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I talked a nice old guy who guided in Shenandoah Park & his wife also guided.

He told me that they figured out that in the Park, as general purpose patterns for brookies, the Parachute Adams had a clearly noticeable edge over the Elk Hair Caddis.

A friend and I had fished 3 days down there and we had noticed the same thing. Both caught brookies. But the Parachute Adams did significantly better.

Another thing I noticed was that on Camp Run in SW PA, which is in a special regulation water which was heavily fished, the brookie behavior was very different than usually found on similar streams.

I was using some standard dry and was getting occasional chases and bumps, but it wasn't going well. I went to 6x leader, which I seldom do for brookies, and something smaller than I usually fish, like an #18 BWO comparadun, and started catching fish.

They were a pretty "tough crowd" as the saying goes.

Posted on: 10/13 17:49


Re: The Ultimate Brookie Box?

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Oh I did too Fox, especially on the Letort lol. I agree about BFC. I don't know the percentage of brown vs brookoes there, but I rarely catch brookies in there.

I think their reputation is formed from people fishing for them in less fertile freestoners, especially in the absence of browns. I'm my experience anyway, browns of equivalent size act similar to the brookies, on mixed streams they're less fertile. Except the ones that are a few years old and dominate logjams or deep pools lol.

Posted on: 10/13 21:10


Re: The Ultimate Brookie Box?

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big spring and big fishing have relatively high alkalinity, so they will have more aquatic bugs and brookies there may be very finnicky. however, most of even the class a PA brookie headwaters streams are low alkalinity, so fewer aquatic bugs and more opportunistic brookies:

http://www.apwc-pa.com/Petition/Appen ... ild%20Trout%20Streams.pdf

with our highly acidic rain, headwaters areas, where water has had less exposure to soils and geology that can buffer acidity, will have fewer aquatic bugs, so fish there feed more opportunistically:

"The ecology of a drainage—from its headwaters to its point of termination—plays a crucial role in its acidity and alkalinity. They can vary greatly as its waters move downstream. At the headwaters, acidity is generally high with pH levels at or below 6.0. This is the result of rain and snow that have not captured surface effluents. This is why you won’t find large numbers of trout in headwater creeks. It is also the reason why brook trout, with their higher tolerance to low pH, are considered one of the ultimate headwater fish."

Posted on: 10/14 6:05

Edited by k-bob on 2017/10/14 6:43:35
Edited by k-bob on 2017/10/14 6:50:46
Edited by k-bob on 2017/10/14 6:52:09
Edited by k-bob on 2017/10/14 6:54:31
Edited by k-bob on 2017/10/14 7:00:32


Re: The Ultimate Brookie Box?

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Quote:

SteveG wrote:

I think their reputation is formed from people fishing for them in less fertile freestoners, especially in the absence of browns.


Exactly right. Fish in infertile headwaters (which is where we usually encounter brook trout, and mostly brook trout) are always easier to catch than fish in limestone streams, or any lower gradient streams, for that matter, regardless of species.

Posted on: 10/14 8:47
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Re: The Ultimate Brookie Box?

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The things about trout behavior and infertility and stream gradient are true.

But, brook trout and brown trout behavior is inherently very different.

Many miles of freestone stream have brookies and browns together, and the brook trout are far more easily caught than the browns.

I read on another forum people saying that in the mountain streams the browns and brookies behave the same and can be caught equally readily. They had a "consensus" going that this was true.

But it is definitely not true, and not close. There are particularly times when conditions are perfect and both can be caught very readily.

But overall, in a stream holding 50/50 browns and brookies, the number of brookies caught will be far higher than the browns. Studies indicate about 5 TIMES higher.

A factor of 5 TIMES higher may sound astonishing and hard to believe. But from what I've seen fishing, I think that's probably about right.


Posted on: 10/14 9:33


Re: The Ultimate Brookie Box?

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Ultimate brookie box:

Stick fly
Cigarette butt fly
Glo bug
Greenie weenie
Patriot
Royal Wulff
All other ridiculous patterns

Posted on: 10/14 10:52
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Re: The Ultimate Brookie Box?

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2006/9/21 0:02
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I also agree that - on streams that hold both brookies and browns - brookies are still a lot easier to catch.

I find it interesting that troutbert mentioned using a #12 deer hair beetle in one of his prior posts. That's my main fly on brookie streams, along with larger streams, all summer and fall. And I catch many fish on it
Most people tie their beetles with foam now. And for good reasons too. Simpler to tie, more durable, and they float like a cork.
However, I'm convinced that deer hair patterns work better - for whatever reason.
I've been out with many of my buddies - all good fishermen - who use foam beetles. And - especially on low, crystal clear streams - they wouldn't be doing too well.
And I'd come along and catch them on my "old school" crowe style beetle.
This has happened over and over for me

Posted on: 10/14 10:54



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