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Re: Summer Water Temperature Thread

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Quote:

JackM wrote:
Quote:

troutbert wrote:
July 14. Warm day, but not blazing hot. Overcast.

Penns Creek in free flowing section above impounded area behind old milldam above Coburn, at 5:30 pm. 68F

Just below milldam at 5:47 pm. 68F



Hmm? So at least at temps of 68 degrees, the milldam is NOT having a negative thermal effect?


That's what it looked like. I hope to check again on a sunnier day to be sure.

If someone else is in the area on a warm afternoon, check it out and let us know what temps you get. There is a pulloff about 1.3 miles above the dam, on the stream side of the road.

And there is a pulloff a hundred yards or so below the dam, on the stream side.

But I think that there is probably little warming effect there. Because the volume of water impounded is not very great.

On an impoundment like Poe Lake, there is a huge warming effect. Because the amount of water in the impoundment is very large compared to the amount of water flowing through. So the water sits there and heats up and warms over a period of days.

In the case of a small milldam impoundment like on Penns, there is just not that much water stored. And you can see the current moving through the impounded area. It's slow, but it's moving.

But I think it would still be beneficial to remove or partially breach this dam. But for other reasons. I wouldn't expect it to transform the temperatures in Penns Creek.

Restoring the tree canopy along all of Penns Creek and it's tribs would probably help. There are quite a few open, unshaded areas along both Penns and its tribs.




Posted on: 2012/7/16 9:31

Edited by troutbert on 2012/7/16 10:15:15
Edited by troutbert on 2012/7/16 10:17:14


Re: Summer Water Temperature Thread
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Penns may very well get underground water volume in the stretch that is backed up there. I imagine, with no real certainty, that dams on limestones waters may very well not be horrible because of so much of the "real" water volume actually running under the apparent substrate.

Posted on: 2012/7/16 10:47
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Re: Summer Water Temperature Thread

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I just spent 2 weeks watching the first migration take place. The first migration is when all the fi8sh the PFBC stocks below water that will allow trout to live , warms to the point where the trout have to migrate to find cooler more oxygenated water upstream. Trout are sometimes stacked on oneanother where streams , springs or small tribs join the main stem. They are very hard to catch when they are doing this and we probably should give 'em a break and just observe.

Posted on: 2012/7/16 11:33


Re: Summer Water Temperature Thread

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Quote:

fadeaway263 wrote:
[quote]
JasonS wrote:

Simply stated if the fish are stressed and dying where are the bodies.



Resized Image

Posted on: 2012/7/16 15:19


Re: Summer Water Temperature Thread

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Dwight, I was back reading your OP. This clearly morphed into something other than you intended!

Posted on: 2012/7/16 15:23


Re: Summer Water Temperature Thread

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We had a situation on the WB Perkiomen during July a few years back when we had thermographs in the stream place at 3 different dams both above and below the dams. 2 of the dams showed the effects of the dams on water temperature, but the difference wasn't real great. On the third dam the temp above the dam was higher than down below the dam, our conclusion was that there were spring in the impoundment cooling the water or the water leaking through the dam was cooling the water. Either way there is an negative effect.

Posted on: 2012/7/16 18:47
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Re: Summer Water Temperature Thread

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Quote:

JackM wrote:
Penns may very well get underground water volume in the stretch that is backed up there. I imagine, with no real certainty, that dams on limestones waters may very well not be horrible because of so much of the "real" water volume actually running under the apparent substrate.


There may be a spring in that section, but I didn't see any.

If there was a large dam on Penns Creek or other limestone stream, where the amount of water stored in the impoundment was much greater than the rate of flow, it would heat up the water.

But at that milldam, the amount of water stored is not very great. There is not some big lake there. I'm not sure that "stored" is even an accurate term. It's more like a somewhat wider, somewhat slower moving section of stream than it is a lake or even a pond.

And if you look at stuff like leaves, twigs etc. in the water, you can see them steadily moving downstream. So the transit time through that stretch is not very great. Not long enough for substantial warming.

On Poe Lake, Lyman Lake etc. the situation is completely different. The amount of water stored in the lakes is very large compared to the summer flow rate.

Posted on: 2012/7/16 19:34


Re: Summer Water Temperature Thread

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The depth of sediment behind the dam helps to keep the water moving, but it also allows for more flow through the substrat,i.e. sediment.

Posted on: 2012/7/17 22:25
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Re: Summer Water Temperature Thread

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Redbank Creek 81° 6:00 pm St. Charles.

Posted on: 2012/7/18 19:49
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Re: Summer Water Temperature Thread

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unnammed freestone trib to redbank creek 72° around 8:00 pm between new bethelem and lawsonham.

Posted on: 2012/7/18 21:37

Edited by Cornholio on 2012/7/18 22:02:21
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Re: Summer Water Temperature Thread

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I took some temperatures in the Muddy Creek watershed yesterday in the North/South Branches and their tribs. The upper reaches of the North Branch were 74F. The lower end was 78F. Leibs Creek which joins the upper reaches of the South Branch of Muddy was 72F. The South Branch just above Alum Run was 78F. Below Alum Run it was 76F. All the tribs that I measured on both branches were at 70F and one trib a couple hundred yards from it's spring source was 59F.

I measured temperatures in both branches at several locations about 100 yards below where the tribs entered and saw a consistent 2 degree drop in water temp.


Maurice did a survey more thorough to this a couple years but I can't find it at the moment.

Posted on: 2012/7/19 10:46


Re: Summer Water Temperature Thread

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"Simply stated if the fish are stressed and dying where are the bodies."

Many fish that die don't float to the surface, and many that don't float to the surface are quickly devoured by crayfish and other critters on the bottom. If they are floating then the critters on the banks and in the air will not hesitate to take them out of said water before anglers can see them. Small dead fish will also be eaten by other larger trout.

It's like college kids throwing couches/chairs/desks on a curb, they won't be in the open long before they get picked up by scavengers.

Posted on: 2012/7/19 14:56


Re: Summer Water Temperature Thread
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Yellow Breeches 19 July, 9:00am (unknown air temp; not hot)

Main stem above confluence with The Run: 66 degrees

The Run: 57

Posted on: 2012/7/19 15:58


Re: Summer Water Temperature Thread

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I have generally seen good cold water temps, 58-63, on small NE PA brookie streams lately. One exception was a small mehoopany-area trib yesterday, which of course had massive flooding last year. It hit 67, warm enough that I called it quits. It probably warmed up because some banks were ripped out and many trees along the stream are down, removing shade.

Here is a winter image showing the big flood plain hurricane Irene ripped along stony run, a rather small meehopany trib. Must be a great loss of shade. Image is by Jeff Mitchell, author of excellent Hiking Endless Mountains hiking books...

http://endlessmountains.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/dsc01774.jpg

The steam I was on was not exposed like Stony, but there are a lot of downed trees.

Interesting also also that even without rain some mehoopany-area tribs are running cloudy, more so the further up you go, about 9 months after the deluge. Brookies are still there.

Posted on: 2012/7/20 9:27


Re: Summer Water Temperature Thread

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2 Berks Cty. limestone streams, Peters Creek 56 at 6:00 pm, Willow Creek at 4:00 64. The trout were not active.

Posted on: 2012/7/20 9:36
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