Stocking brook trout over natives

[mike_richardson]

Do stocked brookies pose any threat to natives?

Was fishing one of my favorite native streams and started catching what I believe to be hold over stocked brookies. There is a barrier that the state and a local co-op are not allowed to stock above. I don't see any trout being able to swim up the barrier, and for risk of spot burning I wont go into more detail on that.

But my question is will these stockies or hold overs pose any threat to the native population? Maybe I am overthinking it but I am seeing them setting up in the best feeding areas, and possibly preying on the juvenile fish. The fish have a lot of color, and show many charactaristics of native trout, but IMO are stockies. I am thinking someone caught stockies below where there are allowed to stock and transported them to try and create a honey hole.

Ive caught a few natives that I would believe to be adults in the 9" range, on the stream but not many. Then all of a sudden I started picking up some 10" trout that looked like a standard hold over, then I hit an old jackdam and when I put my streamer in it was swamped by 5-6 9-10" brookies. The one fish was outstanding but IMO was just a hold over. There was kind of a beaten down path to the jack dam. Just seems to me that some one is stocking these brookies to have a little "play area"

The stream has a really good native population and I don't want to see that threatened. So I guess my main question are these "stockies" going to have an ill effect or negative impact on the native population?

 

[The_Sasquatch]

There's always a possible threat when stocking over native/wild populations. Compare the average size of the wild fish you're catching there with the average size of the natives you catch there, and then ask yourself, "who will win out when it comes time to fight over prime holding water?"

 

[wjkosmer]

Yes

 

[tomgamber]

If there is room, they'll get pushed upstream. if not, its a problem. if you try a search, there are numerous, good discussions on this topic.

 

[Solitariolupo]

Remember they all got to fight for the same food. Anything could happen just like the stream might be healthy enough for them all.

 

[ryansheehan]

Solitariolupo wrote:
Remember they all got to fight for the same food. Anything could happen just like the stream might be healthy enough for them all.

If the stream was healthy enough for more brookies I think the stream would have more brookies. Just a thought.

 

[troutbert]

Yes, stocking over native brook trout harms their populations.

Both the PFBC and coop hatcheries stock over native brook trout in a great many streams.

Only the streams stocked by the PFBC themselves are published in the regs booklet and in the stocking info on their website.

The stream sections that are stocked only by the coop hatcheries are not published anywhere.

The coop hatcheries must get approval of what streams they stock, but they are not required to publish where they stock.

 

[724flyfishing]

I'm far from a expert on the subject, but common sense would say that stocked brook trout would be direct competition to native brook trout in all aspects. I would think they would be the worst of the three hatchery raised fish to stock in a native brook trout stream for that reason. Thankfully they're the easiest to catch and usually get cleaned out of a creek pretty fast.

I'm guessing rainbows would be the least invasive because of opposite spawning times and low tolerance of acidic water. Hence why so few naturally reproduce or holdover very well in our state.

Brown trout would be in the middle I'm guessing. Not as direct of a competition as stocked brookies due to different preferences in habitat but still competition.

 

[ryansheehan]

The thing no one mentioned is the effect on the gene pool. If those stockers spawn they dilute the brookies that have best adapted to that particular stream.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

All these are good points. Many drawbacks to stocking over native and wild fish populations, not to mention, IT'S A WASTE OF MONEY.

 

[mike_richardson]

Ryan,

your comment on the strain is my biggest worry. I had a post questioning if the stockies would breed with the native population but decided not to put it up.

I dunno. I just hate the thought of those fish either taking over, or possibly replacing the native strain. Just wanted to be sure My gut feelings were accurate before I keep these hold overs and stockies.

 

[Chaz]

Yes, there is a lot of documentation with regard to stocking brookies over wild populations. One of the great impacts is it causes the native population to produce fewer large individual brookies. There are several reasons for this too lengthly to write in a short post.

 

[mike_richardson]

Thanks guys. I think trout is on the menu this upcoming week. Kills me as I am pretty much a catch and release type guy, but I value the well being of those natives more than that of the stockies. Kind of a rough way to look at it but it is what it is.

 

[Mike]

My observation has been that adult ST stocked in spring are few and far between by the fall in freestoners. That may be because of poor natural survival or because of easy harvest. They have seemed in one case to do better in a stream with little competition from wild trout or other species. Additionally, if I were thinking about longer term survival, at least until fall, I would expect that I might to see that in the more forgiving environment presented by meadow limestoners.

 

[troutbert]

mike_richardson wrote:
Do stocked brookies pose any threat to natives?

If you fish a lot of brookie streams, some stocked, some not, and also fish the stocked and unstocked sections of the same streams, the answer to this question will become very clear.

It's not a subtle thing; it's glaringly obvious. It's like night and day. You can tell the difference very easily.

Also, I've fished some streams back when they were stocked, then also in the years since they've been stocked. And again it's very easy to see difference. Ending stocking has really improved the brookie populations.

The reason that stocking over brook trout is still done has nothing to do with any scientific controversies of the effects.

It's done because these streams have been stocked for many years. People who live nearby or have camps near these streams want stocking to continue on them.

And they are politically active, i.e. they talk and write to the PFBC staff, the Fish Commissioners, and their state legislators, and tell them they want these brookie streams stocked.

The sportsmans clubs with the coop hatcheries also stock many brookie streams, and they are also very politically active.

They rarely post stuff on the internet. That's what flyfishing wild trout people do. But that's not effective.

What is effective, on this or any other issue, is talking and writing to the people who actually make the decisions.

Which is: PFBC staff, the Fish Commissioners, and the state legislators.

And not necessarily in that order. The Fish Commissioners and the state legislators play a big role in this.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Stocking over natives is NEVER a good idea.
Never in the history of the world has stocking non native fish ever been good for a native population.
Even if the are there temporarily they can and will do damage, even if the effect is temporary.

Too dang much political involvement in PA regarding stocking.

See troutberts posts on this subject.