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Re: Spot Burning...Gim me a break

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2007/1/2 11:55
From Bozeman
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Yes sal, posting about streams that seem to have the "unspoken rule" that you previously alluded to is inconsiderate.

You said yourself that it's not your usual thing to post names of those streams. Why?

Posted on: 2010/6/18 12:43


Re: Spot Burning...Gim me a break
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From Monessen, PA
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Quote:

afishinado wrote:
When does private land have "a general public invitation? You are a guest of the landowner when you park/fish on private land, and to me, a spot that not posted is not a general public invitation, it's a privilege granted by the landowner that can be revoked at any time if it becomes a PITA.


Most private lands I fish are not posted and obviously used by the public, so I consider that the landowner, knowing of public use and deciding not to post is of the very common generous sort of streamside landowner who does not mind if members of the public use the land to access or wade. A large portion of Spring Creek, for instance, is private, but is considered open to the public. No one hesitates to post about these locations, nor is there ever a complaint about it when it happens.

I recognize that the failure to post land against trespass does not constitute permission in a legal sense, but in the circumstances, one can assume there is a general invitation and I often do, as I suspect you and many others do as well.

On the consideration point being made by Jay, while revealing a location that happens to be someone's guarded secret may be inconsiderate toward that person or persons, revealing the available water to others who were unaware of it is very considerate as you have offered those other anglers a chance to fish new and exciting water.

In my opinion, the balance is struck on each individual's own perception of the alleged harm versus the alleged benefit. When it is YOUR secret place, you will tend to see the revelation as generally inconsiderate. It is a natural reaction, but not necessarily rational, unless you think that NO stream should ever be discussed publicly.

If I had to guess, there are about 10% of the complainers who think no stream should be posted about and the other 90% of the complainers only think their special waters should be kept under wraps.

Posted on: 2010/6/18 12:51
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Peace, Tony


Re: Spot Burning...Gim me a break

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2006/9/9 17:18
From lancaster county
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Cm,

your just being spiteful because your big fish in a small wild stream got outed.

I almost never name stream names so why am I the biggest offender? Hello Mcfly?
Arent you happy the fish are ok?
Jay,

Im just playing devils advocate as so many do around here.

But yes, I think the entire argument is ridiculous.

Posted on: 2010/6/18 12:53
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Re: Spot Burning...Gim me a break

Joined:
2007/1/2 11:55
From Bozeman
Posts: 19931
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Quote:

JackM wrote:
Quote:

afishinado wrote:
When does private land have "a general public invitation? You are a guest of the landowner when you park/fish on private land, and to me, a spot that not posted is not a general public invitation, it's a privilege granted by the landowner that can be revoked at any time if it becomes a PITA.


Most private lands I fish are not posted and obviously used by the public, so I consider that the landowner, knowing of public use and deciding not to post is of the very common generous sort of streamside landowner who does not mind if members of the public use the land to access or wade. A large portion of Spring Creek, for instance, is private, but is considered open to the public. No one hesitqates to post these locations, nor is there ever a complaint about it when it happens.

I recognize that the failure to post does not constitute permission in a legal sense, but in the circumstances, one can assume there is a general invitation and I often do, as I suspect you and many others do as well.


In the case of spring creek, the stream will get traffic regardless of internet posts.

In the case of a small, relatively lightly fished stream, posting the name and location would certainly increase traffic. Just look at threads that mention "under the radar" streams. Numerous people comment that they will have to check it out.

Regardless of the legal meaning of the landowner's keeping it open... they very well could because it poses them no inconvenience. I think it's the duty of the fisherman that utilize the area to prevent (or at least avoid fostering) spikes in traffic, as a simple courtesy to the landowner. For the same reasons, anglers should limit their use of the area. If a spike in traffic were to occur, I am sure certain landowners would reconsider. I know I would. For the same reasons, I don't post about landowners that have granted me access. I'd happily tell someone in a more private setting, but it's not for public consumption. This really seems like common sense/courtesy to me.

I really don't see why that's so hard to understand. This is one case where taking the conservative route just seems obvious.

If I'm throwing a party, and accepting all guests, anyone is allowed to show up. That doesn't mean I wouldn't be pissed if someone advertised it on the internet. I allowed open access under the assumption that a relatively small group would show. I am certain that this is often the case with landowners on unstocked trout streams.

Posted on: 2010/6/18 12:55


Re: Spot Burning...Gim me a break
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If you are concerned about landowner reaction to greater traffic, have you ever considered staying away from your secret stream once it has been revealed? Be honest.

Posted on: 2010/6/18 13:00
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Peace, Tony


Re: Spot Burning...Gim me a break

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From Bozeman
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Quote:

JackM wrote:
If you are concerned about landowner reaction to greater traffic, have you ever considered staying away from your secret stream once it has been revealed? Be honest.


Yes. No lie.

Just as I choose to fish the stream(s) only occasionally.

Posted on: 2010/6/18 13:01


Re: Spot Burning...Gim me a break

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2008/12/21 19:48
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ah Sallymander...i dont fish that stream nearly as much as you think...streams chock full of 10 inch fish dont do much...(niether do streams with pellet fed atrocities) so we most likely wont bump into each other on the water anytime soon alas.. however it is the principle...

Posted on: 2010/6/18 13:02
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Re: Spot Burning...Gim me a break
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Well, then, there you have the solution: when someone outs your secret stream, go find a new one and leave your special water to all the new folks to enjoy. End of discussion, right?

Posted on: 2010/6/18 13:02
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Peace, Tony


Re: Spot Burning...Gim me a break

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jack are you going senile on the internet for all to see??

half the things that spew from your keyboard make no sense? why would you even try and pose that question to J? you're just trying to get him to say what you want so you can follow up with your big winning statement at the end... this isnt a cross examination with a half asleep jury...please try and do better...

Posted on: 2010/6/18 13:05
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"I mean just look at this guys profile pic.. bahahahha" - Evanmart


Re: Spot Burning...Gim me a break
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From Monessen, PA
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Quote:

cmkrachen wrote:
however it is the principle...


Is it really? This is usually the last resort argument when others have failed and it is usually hogwash, McCrackhead*.

*Just wanting to see if you are a little offended by someone perverting your username in an effort to belittle you.

Posted on: 2010/6/18 13:05
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Peace, Tony


Re: Spot Burning...Gim me a break

Joined:
2007/1/2 11:55
From Bozeman
Posts: 19931
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Quote:

JackM wrote:
Well, then, there you have the solution: when someone outs your secret stream, go find a new one and leave your special water to all the new folks to enjoy. End of discussion, right?


Assuming the stream only gained one more regular angler, then yes. Assuming it gained more, I don't get your point.

And regardless, I still have the right to be annoyed by losing the ability to fish the stream without jeopardizing open access, due to the inconsiderate need to publicly post the location.

And besides, a simple spike in traffic over a few week period* may be enough to annoy the landowner to the extent of posting his property. As I said, I can guarantee that many landowners allow access under the assumption that the location will not be publicly advertised.

*which I think you may have agreed is possible, if not probable... but I do not remember.

Posted on: 2010/6/18 13:05


Re: Spot Burning...Gim me a break

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2008/12/21 19:48
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nah jack... i have a little thicker skin and quite honestly lots of this discourse makes me smile thats the truth too...

Posted on: 2010/6/18 13:06
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Re: Spot Burning...Gim me a break
Moderator
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From Monessen, PA
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Quote:

cmkrachen wrote:
jack are you going senile on the internet for all to see??

half the things that spew from your keyboard make no sense?


And you are going childish on the internet. Most of what you type is self-serving garbage.

Posted on: 2010/6/18 13:07
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Peace, Tony


Re: Spot Burning...Gim me a break

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Most of what everyone types is self serving in one way or another...

Posted on: 2010/6/18 13:09
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"I mean just look at this guys profile pic.. bahahahha" - Evanmart


Re: Spot Burning...Gim me a break

Joined:
2006/9/9 17:18
From lancaster county
Posts: 6454
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Really?

Interesting cause i know four anglers that know you from other message boards and have seen you in that area. Funny. Guess i can trust you over them Collin.

Posted on: 2010/6/18 13:09
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