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Re: Something interesting about Montana

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2009/10/15 13:45
From Eastern PA
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I just got back from 10 days out there and there is simply too many incredible rivers to mess with the marginal ones. Andy the Bighorne reminded me of the Delaware. 90 degree air temp and 55 degree water. Except Horn has 8,000 trout per mile with a crazy average size. Other than the smoke from fires there were no adverse conditions.....no rain, wind, hail etc like last year. I hear all hell broke loose around Gallitin Valley this week though.

Posted on: 2013/8/29 21:55


Re: Something interesting about Montana

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2011/3/31 12:18
From Clearfield
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Quote:

jdaddy wrote:
Except Horn has 8,000 trout per mile with a crazy average size.


Didn't catch a fish under 14"-15" the whole time I was there.

Posted on: 2013/8/30 7:47
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Re: Something interesting about Montana
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2006/9/11 8:26
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Quote:

jdaddy wrote:
I just got back from 10 days out there and there is simply too many incredible rivers to mess with the marginal ones. Andy the Bighorne reminded me of the Delaware. 90 degree air temp and 55 degree water. Except Horn has 8,000 trout per mile with a crazy average size. Other than the smoke from fires there were no adverse conditions.....no rain, wind, hail etc like last year. I hear all hell broke loose around Gallitin Valley this week though.


Jay's house?!?

Posted on: 2013/8/30 8:17


Re: Something interesting about Montana

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2010/2/18 8:57
From SW PA
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I think the regulations in many western states are eye opening. I recall Alaska Fish and Game would adjust creel limits based on escapement numbers. These are set by counting fish via sonar as they enter the mouth of a river. It seems they can tell which species is which based on when they pass the sonar vs time/tide etc. Cool stuff! The creel limit might change, up or down on a days notice.


Posted on: 2013/8/30 9:54
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Re: Something interesting about Montana

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2010/6/30 14:13
From Lehighton, PA
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Quote:

Chaz wrote:
I wonder if there is any scientific evidence for closing those streams in MT? I think it's over the top.


I think it's putting the resource first. The science? Yeah, trout become increasingly stressed as water approaches and exceeds 70, to the point where catching & releasing them has lethal consequences.

BTW, I believe NY has thermal refuge protections on some streams like the Beaverkill. People that try to exploit trout stacked up in thermal refuge are not ehtical anglers in the least. They're slobs and should be educated or run out of the sport.

Posted on: 2013/8/30 13:30
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Re: Something interesting about Montana

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2011/7/6 12:30
From Ephrata, PA
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Educated first, then if that doesn't work, slobs.

I remember being on Kettle 3 or 4 summers ago. It was a HOT week. I was walking down a stretch about 2 miles above Alvin R Bush dam, fishing for smallies. I noticed a "trout fisherman" standing over a thermal refuge. He said that if I was interested in catching trout, here's a whole mess of them piled up in this hole.

I explained to him why those fish were there and what, exactly, that "hole" was. Sadly, it fell on deaf ears as he continued to tell me they were hammering his "sulpher wet fly".

Posted on: 2013/8/30 13:46


Re: Something interesting about Montana

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2011/5/26 10:12
From Dauphin PA
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And my leadwing coachman. Thanks for introducing yourself.

Posted on: 2013/8/30 15:55
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Re: Something interesting about Montana

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2010/6/9 12:35
From down the block from the Letort.
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OK, so here's a question....what exactly is wrong with fishing over those trout that've holed up in a 'refuge'? Beyond it not exactly being sporting, if the water there is cold from a spring or a trib and the fish are healthy and on the feed, what harm are you really doing to the fish? How does this differ from regular C&R practice, or even harvest for that matter if you're within the legal regs? And, again, I understand and respect the sporting aspect...

Posted on: 2013/8/30 17:03


Re: Something interesting about Montana

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2010/2/18 8:57
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In my opinion, fishing for wild trout in a thermal refuge is a no-no. Hatchery fish on the other hand, were made to be caught (and kept). It's probably not something I 'd make a day of, but I might catch a few before moving on.

Posted on: 2013/8/30 17:59
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Re: Something interesting about Montana

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2009/4/21 16:39
From G-side AKA GLENSIDE
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when I was there a few years ago I bought a pass to fish the park but once I got to Jackson the guys at the shop told me not to. that being said there are a lot of streams in the area that stay cold enough to fish when the big one are to warm.

Posted on: 2013/8/30 18:12


Re: Something interesting about Montana

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2006/9/13 10:18
From LV
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I know all about the idea of fishing over stressed trout, and my threshold on trout waters is 68 degrees. My point is, where's the science that says fishing over fish in a thermal refuge is bad for the fish, as long as they aren't over played.
There are reasons why the trout are there at the mouthes of streams, there's cold water there, and guess what as soon as it rains they disperse again until flows or heat cause them to move again.
I'm not saying that I'd fish a refuge area, but most of the places people talk about doing this in PA are stocked waters, like Pine Creek, really? I love Pine, but once you get south of Ansonia, it's a stocked warm water fishery. The wild trout will have moved by the time the stockies are queuing up at the mouthes of tribs.
Maybe on Penns Creek, but PFBC hasn't done it yet, and probably never will.
Like I said, show me the science that it makes a difference, I'm betting it doesn't, prove me wrong.
I've even seen brookies feeding in 76 degree water.

Posted on: 2013/8/30 22:32
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It's time to stop stocking all wild trout streams no matter what Classification they are, and time to eradicate brown trout in some of our limestone streams and re-establish brookies in them.


Re: Something interesting about Montana

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2009/12/3 14:56
From Cato, NY
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You don't fish in a thermal refuge because it's unethical and quite frank unfair chase. the thermal refuge could be very small area of the streambed and if you hook the fish inside the refuge and fight the fish outside that refuge you could be fighting a trout in water over 70 degrees. Why anyone would want to catch trout that way is beyond me.

Chaz warm water doesn't kill brookies lack of oxygen does. Just because the water is warm doesn't mean the trout don't feed. They still have to eat to survive. Lactic acid build up is quicker in warm water however.

Posted on: 2013/9/3 15:42


Re: Something interesting about Montana

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2006/9/13 10:18
From LV
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Quote:

mcwillja wrote:
You don't fish in a thermal refuge because it's unethical and quite frank unfair chase. the thermal refuge could be very small area of the streambed and if you hook the fish inside the refuge and fight the fish outside that refuge you could be fighting a trout in water over 70 degrees. Why anyone would want to catch trout that way is beyond me.

Chaz warm water doesn't kill brookies lack of oxygen does. Just because the water is warm doesn't mean the trout don't feed. They still have to eat to survive. Lactic acid build up is quicker in warm water however.



In part it is lack oxygen, and high temperatures cause lack of oxygen.
By the theory that you don't fish a thermal refuge you would have me believe that any brookie stream is a thermal refuge that should not be fished during hot weather. I agree that thermal refuges shouldn't be fished at the mouthes of creeks, but show me the science as to why. As I said in PA, there are very few stocked streams that I believe need protection, they are stocked fish and by definition an ATW is marginal.

Posted on: 2013/9/3 17:39


Re: Something interesting about Montana

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2006/9/11 13:21
From West Chester PA
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Just back from 10 days in Yellowstone and Grand Teton. The Firehole, lower Gibbon, the Madison and a few others were too warm - @70º - but we fished the tribs and found cold water and very good fishing. The shop guys steered us away from the warm water but helped with alternates. Had to do some serious hiking in, but it was well worth it. Cutts, Browns, Rainbows and Brookies. Carried bear spray and had a bull bison walk within 10 yards of me. I never heard him coming.

Posted on: 2013/9/4 8:07
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