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Re: Salmon and Steelhead 2017

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2010/7/6 20:36
Posts: 23
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Actually moon the chinooks in Lake Ontario they have found to be about 50% natural reproduction. The adipose fin is the dead giveaway as the hatchery clips there fish. I havent caught a clipped fin all season.

Posted on: 8/29 16:35


Re: Salmon and Steelhead 2017

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2010/8/4 11:18
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I don't think NYSDEC still clips adipose fins on kings. When they did (a few years ago) I remember them saying 40-50% were wild. I have also heard that up to 70% of Chinooks caught in the SR are wild.

I never believed those numbers, mostly because when they stopped stocking Lake Erie with Kings, they more or less disappeared. I don't know if the DEC counts fish collected from wild brood stock as wild fish or not. I feel like if stocking of pacific salmon was ceased (which I hope DOES NOT happen), the fishery would become non-existent.

Posted on: 8/29 18:09


Re: Salmon and Steelhead 2017

Joined:
2006/10/18 15:46
From Patterson twp, Pa (Beaver Falls)
Posts: 329
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Lake Erie and Lake Ontario are 2 completely different places. Erie is a VERY shallow lake with a small watershed on the tribs and filled with shale. Just not suitable for reproduction. I don't know if I believe the 50% but I would say there's more reproduction in Lake Ontario than you think.

I've fished Ontario 3 times and will spend 4 days there in a few weeks. For flies I love an orange bead head zonker in black. I bet that catches as many fish as all other flies some days up there. I'll also do streamers (wooly buggers, zonkers, leach flies, etc) in chartreuse, black, red, pink and white. Eggs I use estaz in about 10 colors where orange and red seem to fish best and glo bugs in a bunch of colors where an egg color with pink dot seems to out produce. I know guys love a black stone fly up there but I just don't catch many with them.

The thing up there is to bring TONS of flies and TONS of split shot. The fish tear you off and there's lots of snags. NY doesn't sell lead. Aluminum is not as heavy and more expensive so bring 3-4 packs of spit shot. You can literally go through 1-2 dozen flies in a day. It sucks when you only have half a dozen of something that's working and you run out.

I have fished the open water a few times but would rather spend the money on the DSR especially when I do 1 trip a season and am there for just a few days. It's costly but you get the freshest fish and hopefully not as big of a crowd.



I'm hoping Erie has a good year. It's been more than a few years since I've had good fishing up there. Water levels have been bad and the fish numbers have been down. Still looking for that Erie brown trout too.

Posted on: 8/30 12:15
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Re: Salmon and Steelhead 2017

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2010/5/1 9:10
From NE OH
Posts: 75
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I remember a guy a little over a year ago that was hesitant to even say the word "bead". The times they are a changin'

Quote:

ryguyfi wrote:
Is it ok to peg beads in NY with the regs up there?

Posted on: 8/30 21:10
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Re: Salmon and Steelhead 2017

Joined:
2006/10/18 15:46
From Patterson twp, Pa (Beaver Falls)
Posts: 329
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Quote:

PatrickC wrote:
I remember a guy a little over a year ago that was hesitant to even say the word "bead". The times they are a changin'

Quote:

ryguyfi wrote:
Is it ok to peg beads in NY with the regs up there?


That guy still exists. This guy is actually doing some product testing for the shop so exceptions need to be made. Alaska is a whole different story but I'm never opposed to change.

Posted on: 8/31 11:49
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Re: Salmon and Steelhead 2017

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2010/7/6 20:36
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Just out of couriousty what are some of your best colors and sizes for beads. Been steelheading for years now with limited success with beads. I know guys swear by them but I always do better with glo bugs. Glo roe has been my go to bead for sure.

Posted on: 8/31 19:34


Re: Salmon and Steelhead 2017

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2011/8/15 15:02
From Bethlehem, PA
Posts: 52
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Oddly enough, the most successful fly pattern I've used on the Salmon River for king and coho salmon, and to a lesser extent for steelhead, is the Montana Stone from Charles Brooks "Nymph Fishing for Larger Trout" tied on a size 6 or 8 hook. The Salmon River is crawling with big Pteronarcys stone flies. Whether or not that provides the salmon an urge to take them is another question. What I do know is they work and work well. I tie them heavily weighted and with a 3/16" black bead head.

I was at the Salmon River for 2 and a half days fishing this week at DSR. There were a few fish in the river. My friend and I each brought one king to hand. I hooked 5; he hooked 4. Both the fish we landed and most of the ones we hooked were on the Montana Stone. There were rumors of a few cohos here and there and claims to have caught them. I saw neither coho nor anyone claiming to have caught one. There is a white water release this weekend. That may well bring quite a few more fish into the river.

Posted on: 8/31 23:47
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Re: Salmon and Steelhead 2017

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2006/9/11 11:30
Posts: 175
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The 50% wild king number is somewhat misleading. 70% of kings in SR are wild, but SR has 70% of Lake Ontario's kings. Therefore, wild kings are common in SR, but are rare at the smaller tribs.

SR is a big river with miles of areas with good spawning gravel. All it needs is a wet summer to produce plenty of wild fish. That can't be said about most of the other Lake O or Lake Erie tribs. A few years back the power plant was required to have minimum flows in the summer (used to shut off when power wasn't needed) and that made all the difference. Of course, the weather still causes good and bad spawning years.

Posted on: 9/1 9:34


Re: Salmon and Steelhead 2017

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2010/8/4 11:18
Posts: 559
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Where do you get numbers of 70% of kings in SR are wild and 70% of LO kings go to Salmon River?

Not saying you're wrong but I'd like to see that data.

Posted on: 9/1 10:07


Re: Salmon and Steelhead 2017

Joined:
2009/5/26 8:36
From York & Starlight, PA
Posts: 360
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Moon1284 wrote;

Quote:
None of the fish that run are supposed to be there and there is very little natural reproduction


At least 25% of the steelhead that enter the Cattaraugus are wild fish. The Cat is significantly less crowded than the Salmon River and you meet many nice people.

Posted on: 9/2 3:09
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Re: Salmon and Steelhead 2017

Joined:
2007/10/17 10:49
From florida
Posts: 1625
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My friend "Moose" and I chased around trying to get to various sections of The Catt. Crazy, one road was a steep switchback that got to a great section. I doubt that I could find it again. Nice water with no one fishing there. GG

Posted on: 9/2 12:50
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Re: Salmon and Steelhead 2017

Joined:
2009/5/26 8:36
From York & Starlight, PA
Posts: 360
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gulfgray wrote;

Quote:
one road was a steep switchback that got to a great section


It sounds like you were either above Gowanda in the Zoar Valley area or downstream in the reservation. Do you remember if you crossed a long bridge?

I found half a dozen access points just by driving around and seeing if there were any guys parked and fishing.

Posted on: 9/2 14:03
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Re: Salmon and Steelhead 2017

Joined:
2007/10/17 10:49
From florida
Posts: 1625
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WE were above Gowanda. Moose used to teach there in Gowanda back in the 60's. The creek was so polluted it stunk. Probably was the Zoar Valley. The Catt gets blown out rather easily and we tried to fish it for a number of yeares before we got it at fish able levels. GG

Posted on: 9/3 2:00
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bragging may not bring happiness,but no man having caught a large fish goes home through an alley. a non a mus


Re: Salmon and Steelhead 2017

Joined:
2009/5/26 8:36
From York & Starlight, PA
Posts: 360
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Gulfgray,

FYI the NYS USGS gage for the Cat has a turbidity gage as well as the gage height and cfs graph. We met some guys who told us that as long as the turbidity is between 0 and 15 you can have good fly fishing. Higher than a turbidity of 15 and the water is so stained it is hard for the steelhead to see the flies.

You can buy the reservation permit ($15.00 for seniors) at the convenient store at the circle on Route 5 just after crossing the bridge. Gas is cheaper at reservation service stations.

Posted on: 9/4 22:46
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Re: Salmon and Steelhead 2017

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2010/8/4 11:18
Posts: 559
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The Catt does has wild steelhead. There is an LO trib near rochester that also has some natural reproduction. IMO, the key to natural reproduction of lake run fish is removing dams. There are Lake Trout that naturally reproduce in the Niagara River and Lake Ontario. There supposedly isn't any natural reproduction of steelhead, salmon, and brown trout in the Niagara River, but I have a hard time believing that. I believe there is a small population of resident brown trout and lake trout in a certain area of the Niagara - I have caught those fish 12 months a year in the Niagara River, but very few in July and early August. If they remove Scoby Dam on the Catt or at least create a fish passage as planned, this will make the river that much better. I fish both the upper and lower catt system quite a bit.

The salmon river isn't really that far from the lake to the dam (about 13 miles) but there are some tribs that provide good habitat for spawning, so I'm sure there are some wild fish there but SR fish get absolutely slaughtered, and personally I have no interest in fishing for black steelhead in 20 degree temps, especially when even on the coldest days you have to sit in the dark for an hour to get a prime spot. If I were to fish the salmon river, it would be between now and Oct 1, and it would have to be on a tues or weds, and I wouldn't make a long drive, the crowds just drive me nuts. I'm a firm believer that the best time to fish the GL tribs is in early fall when the fish are beginning to run. It's a crap shoot but I'd much rather fish for silver fish than black ones.

As far as pollution, I'm sure the catt has had pollution, but it always stunk. The indian name Cattaraugus is derived from means "foul smelling river bank" the sulphur smell is from natural gas that oozes from the mud. GG you are probably talking about the Zoar valley area.

Posted on: 9/5 7:36



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