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Re: Raibow Trout Question on Reproduction

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2006/9/11 15:34
From Blair County
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You are on Spot with that .. True most streams need stocking , and alot benefit . I fish a particular stream ,that after 1 week after the last stock truck hits it . Well people thnk all the fish are gone . I fished the whole summer and say not a person .. To boot I caught lots of hold over , that eventually would reproduce ..

Also I think most bait slingers , just want to say "GOT MY LIMIT TODAY " So drop the limit to 3 fish ...
I guess I m a snob . I never fished with bait . I was brought up since i was 8 fly fishing ......
HAVE A GREAT DAY !!!

Posted on: 2007/1/11 8:48
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Re: Raibow Trout Question on Reproduction
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The wild rainbows that are now appearing in much greater numbers in the "Harvey" section of Spruce Creek may be a good case in point. These fish - primarily fall spawners - are almost certainly a result of private stocking. I wonder to what degree private stocking may affect the gene pool of the state's rainbows? Might private clubs be infusing our waters with fish that possess a greater proclivity to spawn? It's a complex question and probably very hard to answer definitively but it would not surprise me that we may see more spawning rainbows in PA due to more diversified supplies of hatchery fish.

Posted on: 2007/1/11 9:06


Re: Raibow Trout Question on Reproduction

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RangerKeen, I wouldn’t say you’re a snob. I bet many if not most of the guys on this board have bait fished, and many if not most would like to see less harvest of fish in trout streams that support reproduction and/or holdover trout. I think the difference is just that some people fish because they love the sport, and some people fish because they kind of like the sport but like the idea of eating the fish they catch, or showing off the fish they catch, more than being able to catch them more frequently and most of the year. It has nothing to do with snobbery or elitism, it’s just a matter of preferences.

Posted on: 2007/1/11 9:09
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Re: Raibow Trout Question on Reproduction

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Fishidiot's post raises the question as to whether the PFBC should exert more control over private clubs who stock "their" water with their fish.

Posted on: 2007/1/11 9:14
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Re: Raibow Trout Question on Reproduction
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Quote:

Fishidiot wrote:
The wild rainbows that are now appearing in much greater numbers in the "Harvey" section of Spruce Creek may be a good case in point. These fish - primarily fall spawners - are almost certainly a result of private stocking. I wonder to what degree private stocking may affect the gene pool of the state's rainbows? Might private clubs be infusing our waters with fish that possess a greater proclivity to spawn? It's a complex question and probably very hard to answer definitively but it would not surprise me that we may see more spawning rainbows in PA due to more diversified supplies of hatchery fish.


Thats a great point...and, I might add, why it is against the law to introduce wildlife to Pennsylvania without proper permitting. Regardless how you feel about the F&BC stocking over wild trout, the fact that private clubs may be importing rainbows capable of reproduction increases the stress on Brook Trout, should they be present in the system where the imports are stocked.

Something to think about...

Posted on: 2007/1/11 9:15
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Re: Raibow Trout Question on Reproduction

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2006/12/13 9:28
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Quote:

Wulff-Man wrote:
I think the difference is just that some people fish because they love the sport, and some people fish because they kind of like the sport but like the idea of eating the fish they catch, or showing off the fish they catch, more than being able to catch them more frequently and most of the year. It has nothing to do with snobbery or elitism, it’s just a matter of preferences.


Then there are guys like me. I'm sure you can tell that I love the sport, but I also like to eat trout (occasionally). Yes, we do exist. I also grew up using bait for trout. Self taught fly angler who learned fishing for bluegills. I also still use bait on occasion for trout, but only for early season stocked trout and only if I plan on keeping a few. If it were just me, I'd throw them all back. I prefer the fishing over the eating of trout, but my wife likes trout so I try to bring a few home once in awhile. Personally I'd rather have a burger. She prefers the wild trout over stocked, but has been informed that the only time I will bring her any of those is if I happen to hook one deep (happens on rare occasions).

Posted on: 2007/1/11 11:15


Re: Raibow Trout Question on Reproduction

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2006/12/29 10:00
From Harrisburg
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Wulff-Man I like your outlook on angler prefs. And as we get more and more enveloped by the sport we tend to fall in love with the sport and the fish. I believe baitfishermen deserve the chance to develop just like I did. When I sell a flyrod it has always been to a baitfishermen or a flyfishermen. Never once has somebody come in and said "Give me that Diamondback. Gonna start the boy fishing tomorrow." (God bless ya Ranger) Bait and spinfishers are where are future flyrodders come from. Like it or not. Some are nothing but rapists really. Kill everything, leave garbage,ect. But some will develop the romance with the sport most flyfishermen I know have. They have a right to our beautful wilds just as we do. They pay for more of it than we do. I WISH we could send them all to a stocked pond. I really do. But 2 wrongs dont make a right.
I thought all trout stocked in Pa by the commission or club had to be OK'd by the Fish Commission? No?
I'm gettin sucked into these posts while I could be fishin. Yeeeshh!

Posted on: 2007/1/11 11:30


Re: Raibow Trout Question on Reproduction

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I don't know the details like some of the other guys here do, but the PFBC does have to OK any private stocking. They just apparently haven't worried about the effects of stocking reproducing rainbows, I guess. Is it by design or chance that they themselves don't stock rainbows that reproduce well? I think it's interesting what someone said earlier about the PFBC stocking different species over wild populations to avoid interbreeding and to be able to differentiate wild trout. It seems that stocking different species that may reproduce could be very detrimental (like rainbows wiping out brookies).

Posted on: 2007/1/11 13:18
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Re: Raibow Trout Question on Reproduction
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Wulff-Man wrote:
I don't know the details like some of the other guys here do, but the PFBC does have to OK any private stocking.


As always, I am willing to be proven wrong, but every time I have searched through regulations for a prohibition on stocking without prior permission, I have come up empty. If I recall, my conclusion from the research that brook, brown and rainbow trout may be stocked freely in any water of the Commonwealth, except that "[i]t is unlawful to place fish in waters that have been designated by the Commission as catch and release, wilderness trout or wild trout management waters except with the express written consent of the Executive Director or his designee."

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/058/chapter71/chap71toc.html



Posted on: 2007/1/11 13:43
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Re: Raibow Trout Question on Reproduction

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JackM wrote:
As always, I am willing to be proven wrong, but every time I have searched through regulations for a prohibition on stocking without prior permission, I have come up empty. If I recall, my conclusion from the research that brook, brown and rainbow trout may be stocked freely in any water of the Commonwealth, except that "[i]t is unlawful to place fish in waters that have been designated by the Commission as catch and release, wilderness trout or wild trout management waters except with the express written consent of the Executive Director or his designee."

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/058/chapter71/chap71toc.html




jack, I think you are for the most part correct on this one, with maybe a couple more exceptions.

for example, this might not be true on public waters (i really don't know). so for the rest of this, I'm talking private land/water.

I had looked into this when i found that a club was stocking browns in one of my favorite childhood brook trout streams. First i confronted a member who siad it was their land, they can do what they want. PF&BC pretty much agreed when I asked them. they

I do know that it is illegal in PA (and Ohio) to transport fish from one body of water to another (unless you are the PF&BC). However, I'm pretty sure it is legal to purchase fish from a licensed hatchery for the purpose of stocking a stream on your land. some of these clubs have their own hatcheries, and I believe you have to have a permit to raise your own trout (licensed hatchery). But if you have that permit, you stock private waters or even sell the fish.

I think the only time the fish commision has any say so as to what you do with fish you raise is if they provided you with the fish. There are one or two guys here who are involved with coop hatcheries that might be able to conferm or deny this.

Disclaimer: I can't back this up with documentation at this time, but i do believe it to be true.

Posted on: 2007/1/11 14:04


Re: Raibow Trout Question on Reproduction
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Jack,

The following is in the summary of regulations under ”unlawful acts”:

“To release any species of fish, except those listed as approved by the Fish & Boat Commission, in Commonwealth waters without written permission from the executive director of the Pennsylvania Fish & Boat Commission.”



The link is the approved list of waterways, and the approved and unapproved species of fish that can and cannot be stocked. The waterways listed are the major Rivers in PA.

http://sites.state.pa.us/PA_Exec/Fish_Boat/speciesapp.pdf

Jack – do you interpret it in the same way?

Posted on: 2007/1/11 14:19


Re: Raibow Trout Question on Reproduction

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2006/12/13 9:28
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Oops, you beat me to it. I had posted the same chart, but the link was different and made the page too wide (so i edited it out). Looks pretty clear to me. What it says i can raise or introduce carp without express permission if i want. I think even Ohio has tighter laws than that.

Also, those are watersheds, not waterways so you can do it almost anywhere in the state.

Posted on: 2007/1/11 14:27
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Re: Raibow Trout Question on Reproduction

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2006/9/9 20:09
From Harrisburg
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Dear Board,

What difference does it make whether stocking fish in private water is legal without a permit? It doesn't change the fact that plenty of people do it. You can't build a deck on your house without a building permit in most places but most people take their chances.

The same goes for buying live fish. You can call Trouty Acres and order up 100 live 12 to 15 inch rainbows and they'll bring them by tomorrow no questions asked as long as you have the money to pay for them.

Private trout hatcheries are in the business of raising and selling fish, they could care less what people do with them once they are paid.

Regards,
Tim Murphy

Posted on: 2007/1/11 14:53


Re: Raibow Trout Question on Reproduction
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afishinado wrote:
Jack – do you interpret it in the same way?


Well I do. But don't rely on me to do this. Your information was the additional information I remember coming across last time I looked into this. If you check the link in my prior post, it refers to the list you linked and makes clearer what Farmer Dave pointed out, that the species are approved by "watershed." I think the issue remaining is what constitutes "wild trout management waters," as used in 58 Pa. Code 71.4

Posted on: 2007/1/11 15:02
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Re: Raibow Trout Question on Reproduction

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2006/12/13 9:28
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Quote:

TimMurphy wrote:
Dear Board,

What difference does it make whether stocking fish in private water is legal without a permit? It doesn't change the fact that plenty of people do it. You can't build a deck on your house without a building permit in most places but most people take their chances.


Regards,
Tim Murphy


OK smartaas, it doesn't make a difference to you or I, but if I were the owner of a big club where I have a bunch of whiney fly anglers watching every move i make just itching to turn me in for anything, it just might make a difference!!!!

Now if you will excuse me, it's time for

Posted on: 2007/1/11 15:39



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