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Re: Private Water Fly Fishing

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2007/7/2 19:40
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If I had won the Irish Sweepstakes when that was the only game in town,I would have bought Green Springs or a chunk of the Letort but since I didn't ,I didn't.
Strict regulations requiring catch and release,fly fishing only and a reasonable rod fee for upkeep would have seemed fair.
Dream on Pete,dream on.
Surprised that more haven't done so.

Posted on: 2012/2/20 9:57
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Re: Private Water Fly Fishing

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2008/6/8 19:45
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I definitely can't get on-board with a private club fee or pay to fish water. I still think that our waters should be everyone's resource. The euro/english system was awful in my opinion. Riverkeepers and assigned beats etc. No thank you.

Posted on: 2012/2/20 10:10


Re: Private Water Fly Fishing

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2012/2/7 19:41
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Wildtrout, Stocking over a viable, self sustaining class a water (meets certain biomass requirements) is not acceptable. Supplemental stocking certain sections of a stream where wild trout are not present while implementing and monitoring measures to improve the wild trout in an effort to get the wild trout to populate these sections, without destroying the rest of the stream in the process, isn't stocking over wild trout in the sense that everyone wants to believe. In fact, what the club is actually habitat improvement. Do you complain about the stocking of trout at the breaches in allenbury?

Jack, you can dislike pay to fish, you can despise it but that doesn't mean that those privatizing streams are ruining the streams habitat and conservation and that's the point. People who don't like pay to fish are drawing conclusions that clubs ruin water and aren't about conservation. Some are, some aren't, what is being ruined is your ability to fish that stream and if that's your gripe, I agree. If people don't like this, find property owners along streams and lease their property and create a free membership fishing club to anyone who wants to be a member thus insuring access will remain open to all.




Posted on: 2012/2/20 10:15


Re: Private Water Fly Fishing

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I don't know Gene Macri personally, but I've read a lot of material he wrote and he used to come on this board years ago. I respect the good (and long) fight he put up to shut down the hatchery on Big Spring. But I do find there to be a significant tension between his "river keeper" posture - at least in the environmental stewardship sense, if not the older English gamekeeper sense - and a "pay to fish" stocking operation. I don't think fee fishing operations are per se evil, and they can even improve and protect habitat. Moreover, the angling public generally supports the state stocking over wild populations as well. But I admit it rankles me when private fishing operations put on a public face suggesting their main motivation is "conservation". I'd like to see an outfit like that which refused to stock at all and just worked hard to build up the wild pops. On a quality water like Spruce, with limited angling pressure and strict C&R, that absolutely could result in a fantastic wild fishery. Then I'd believe they were all about the resource. Failing that, just admit that your business model requires an unnatural abundance of unnaturally large trout to keep your paying customers happy and drop all the sanctimony.

Posted on: 2012/2/20 10:22


Re: Private Water Fly Fishing

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If I own property along a stream that is not navigable why should it be everyone's resource to enjoy? I don't like the pay to fish model but I don't have the money to buy my own stream for myself or to donate to the state. If you do, great for you and if you decide to sell club memberships, good for you, too.


Posted on: 2012/2/20 10:22


Re: Private Water Fly Fishing

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2009/2/19 19:59
From Mont Co, Pa
Posts: 2034
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Quote:

Will wrote:
Moreover, the angling public generally supports the state stocking over wild populations as well.

Where/how did you get this impression?

Posted on: 2012/2/20 11:16
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Re: Private Water Fly Fishing

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2009/2/19 19:59
From Mont Co, Pa
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Quote:

Greenweenie1 wrote:
Wildtrout, Stocking over a viable, self sustaining class a water (meets certain biomass requirements) is not acceptable. Supplemental stocking certain sections of a stream where wild trout are not present while implementing and monitoring measures to improve the wild trout in an effort to get the wild trout to populate these sections...


And you achieve this by putting in stocked trout? There are habitat problems (often silting) when you have wild/native trout in some sections and not others on a given stream. I don't believe putting in stocked trout that can/will eat YOY wild trout is the answer.

Posted on: 2012/2/20 11:35
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Re: Private Water Fly Fishing
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2006/9/9 9:29
From Monessen, PA
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I have the same impression. But, maybe more accurate to say that 80% of stamp buyers do not know that there are wild reproducing trout populations in PA and of the 20% that do, only about 8% of those give a hoot whether they fish for wild or stocked trout, and then half of them actually get upset that supplemental stocking is done on occasion.

Posted on: 2012/2/20 11:35
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Re: Private Water Fly Fishing

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2009/9/14 12:48
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Quote:
People who don't like pay to fish are drawing conclusions that clubs ruin water and aren't about conservation.


I live in central PA and I've seen the way clubs manage private water on several local streams, all of which are class A. Conservation is a selling point for these clubs and not something they are in any way committed to. I've fished for the trout in the UK, on the Test and on several other privately managed beats on streams in Dorchester. What private clubs are doing in PA is absolutely not akin to the way streams are managed in the UK. It's a joke to compare them.

Posted on: 2012/2/20 11:45


Re: Private Water Fly Fishing

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2009/4/22 22:42
From Southwest, Pa
Posts: 98
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Quote:

wildtrout2 wrote:
GW, you come on here just this month with all of 16 posts and refer to members as "clueless idiots". Great start! Just because some folks don't see things the same way you see them, they're idiots? ".


And to this I give an emphatic "Amen!".

Posted on: 2012/2/20 12:27


Re: Private Water Fly Fishing

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"Moreover, the angling public generally supports the state stocking over wild populations as well."

"Where/how did you get this impression?"

I'm taken aback by the question, to the point where I am tempted to turn it around - what gave you a contrary impression? I believe the state continues to stock over class B and even sometimes class A populations largely because that is desired by a majority of anglers who use those stream sections, though I wish it were otherwise. When the state stops stocking such a section , there is usually signficant opposition. And that's not even counting class C and D streams that might improve (or, to be fair, might not).

To be very clear, probably in common with most on this board, I am opposed to stocking over fishable wild trout populations.
If you have evidence that a majority PA trout anglers oppose stocking over wild fish, let's marshall that evidence and use it, because we are missing a great opportunity to lobby the PFBC to stop the practice.

Anyway, my point in raising this in the context of the thread was just that the public non-fee-fishing community isn't, collectively speaking at least, entirely free of the "sin" of supporting stocking over wild pops in order to catch more and larger trout.

Posted on: 2012/2/20 12:43


Re: Private Water Fly Fishing

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2008/9/12 12:41
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5RingsBL, and you add what value to this or any other thread?

BTW, Greenweenie1 is my home account because this site won’t let me log on with my original GW account from home so I’ve got far more than 16 posts.

And I stand by my comment that some of the responses to this thread were made by clueless idiots. If you are going to bash someone’s scientific credentials or claim they are ruining a stream, do some research and find out their credentials and what they are doing and don’t conclude the guy is an idiot and ruining streams just because the video isn’t a well polished professional video or you think his website is cheesy or you don’t like that he’s associated with a pay to fish club. While any of those may cause you to not like the guy, that in itself doesn’t mean he’s ruining streams, a hypocrite or an idiot. Many are making wrong assumptions and jumping to erroneous conclusions as to the club’s operations.

Of the people who have made disparaging comments, I ask how many of you have taken the time to email Gene and find out some info on the club and what he and the club does for the stream? If you haven’t (and I doubt many did), and you are not familiar with the club’s operation and Gene’s involvement as riverkeeper, then yes, you are a clueless idiots when you make baseless negative comments.

Will, good post, you definitely get it. Very much continuing the lines raised by Jack earlier in the post.


Posted on: 2012/2/20 13:08


Re: Private Water Fly Fishing

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2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
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I tend to side with Tim on this one.

Regarding pay to fish. It ain't my cup of tea. In my mind, once a stretch of stream becomes posted, whether totally posted or pay to play, it is completely gone from any discussion of "conservation". It ceases to be a resource, period. There is no longer any resource to be protected. It's gone.

I do respect the landowners right to do this. And would not lobby that it should be illegal or anything like that, provided they aren't taking public land to do it. I just find it incredibly insulting to advertise is as "conservation", as if they're doing the public a favor or something.

The issue about stocking over wild trout, well, again, it's not a reasource for the public. So long as they're not ruining any sections which are open to the public in the process, I could care less what they do with it. If I were a member, I'd prefer to fish over truly wild, unfed fish. And to be quite honest, if a club were truly to cater to such desires, I'm not above doing it on occasion. I'd consider paying a rod fee to fish a truly wild trout stream. But I'd still see it more as a private amusement park, rather than a natural "resource", and could not ever associate it with the term "conservation". And I probably couldn't get really into fishing such a place on a regular basis, it'd be nothing more than a novelty, as the motivation for me is enjoying our "resources".

Posted on: 2012/2/20 20:18


Re: Private Water Fly Fishing

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2010/6/26 11:19
From Along the Lehigh Above the Gap
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What is your guys take on a place like Harman's? I mean its basically a pay to fish place, but a bunch of us on here would like to go there.

Posted on: 2012/2/20 21:06
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Re: Private Water Fly Fishing

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2012/2/7 19:41
Posts: 57
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So I guess the issue is what constitutes or defines "conservation." If I understand, if John Q Public can't fish the stream,the resource is gone and not conserved. In this instance if the stream is posted and no one ever fishes the stream and the wild trout thrive, it doesn't matter, it isnt conserved because no one can fish it. So conservation has nothing to do with what is best for the fish but rather it's more about the benefit of the fisherman.

And privatizing a stream doesn't mean they are doing the public a favor - they aren't - but that doesn't mean the stream isn't being conserved as a natural resource -it just may. Unfortunately John Q Public can't fish it.

In NJ there are "nature preserves" that are off limits to trespassing of any kind. This is land that has been acquired but the state and specifically set aside as a nature preserve with no intrusion from man. Sounds like pretty good conservation to me. Or is this not conservation because I can't shoot the deer or the turkeys or fish for anything?

Posted on: 2012/2/20 21:11



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