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Re: Panfish invading a trout stream!

Joined:
2010/5/1 9:10
From NE OH
Posts: 1356
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Quote:

FarmerDave wrote:

And don't forget about pumping their stomach.



I stopped reading that thread after the initial post because I knew that it would go full blown stupid BTW, I have never pumped the stomach of a fish.... I have removed some sticks from the creek occasionally

Posted on: 2013/9/25 9:31
_________________
"You don't need 7x. All right, 7x...now you're just being stupid. That's ridiculous. You know what else...throw away the 6x, because that's garbage too." -Hank Patterson


Re: Panfish invading a trout stream!

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2006/11/2 8:50
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I was (and still am) just wondering about the purpose of removing branches from pools and what is meant by "stream maintenance."

There have been posts about flyfishers removing some trash when out fishing.

But I haven't seen any posts before about doing "stream maintenance" when fishing, and what that means, the intended goals and theories behind it, etc.

Posted on: 2013/9/25 9:39


Re: Panfish invading a trout stream!

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2010/5/1 9:10
From NE OH
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They were brand new fallen branches that I was tired of getting stuck on. They were not logs. They were not some long established piece of habitat. They were branches with green leaves. Next time I will take pictures and submit them for your approval

Posted on: 2013/9/25 9:41
_________________
"You don't need 7x. All right, 7x...now you're just being stupid. That's ridiculous. You know what else...throw away the 6x, because that's garbage too." -Hank Patterson


Re: Panfish invading a trout stream!

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We thank you for your "stream maintenance" services.


Posted on: 2013/9/25 10:09


Re: Panfish invading a trout stream!

Joined:
2006/12/13 9:28
From Other side of the tracks
Posts: 19118
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Quote:

PatrickC wrote:
Quote:

FarmerDave wrote:

And don't forget about pumping their stomach.



I stopped reading that thread after the initial post because I knew that it would go full blown stupid BTW, I have never pumped the stomach of a fish.... I have removed some sticks from the creek occasionally


I ignored it for awhile, but like most people I can't turn my head very long from a train wreck.

Posted on: 2013/9/25 10:11
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There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance." -Henry David Thoreau--


Re: Panfish invading a trout stream!

Joined:
2006/12/13 9:28
From Other side of the tracks
Posts: 19118
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Quote:

PatrickC wrote:
They were brand new fallen branches that I was tired of getting stuck on. They were not logs. They were not some long established piece of habitat. They were branches with green leaves. Next time I will take pictures and submit them for your approval


Apparently JackM was there right before you.

Posted on: 2013/9/25 10:13
_________________
There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance." -Henry David Thoreau--


Re: Panfish invading a trout stream!

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2010/5/1 9:10
From NE OH
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I just read the stomach pump thread. I had not read it prior to my statements about all of the stuff we do to fish. Creepy how closely my statements mirrored Maurice's, but then, well...GREAT MINDS

Posted on: 2013/9/25 13:11
_________________
"You don't need 7x. All right, 7x...now you're just being stupid. That's ridiculous. You know what else...throw away the 6x, because that's garbage too." -Hank Patterson


Re: Panfish invading a trout stream!

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2007/6/19 21:49
From Lancaster County
Posts: 1573
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No arguments from me that fishing is not a no-impact past-time. However, trying to equate hooking and playing a fish, along with all the possible chances for injury to the fish, with stream "maintenance" is comparing apples to oranges. One has to do with the fish and the other has to do with the habitat of the fish (on a micro-scale, where that single branch is and on a macro scale, when those multiple branches accumulate in a log jam).

It's a given that a chance for injury to a fish exists by our very presence on the stream (regardless of what kind of tackle you use, or how delicately you play or release a fish). However, just because a fish might be altered in some way by our fishing for it does not also mean we have to alter their habitat and I interpolated that the removal was for the convenience of your fishing, not the convenience of the fish. If they were small limbs, streams have a pretty good means of cleansing themselves over a fairly short amount of time. And small limbs stacked up in front of a log jam make for some additional cover for fish to hide in.

I've accepted that my presence, for a time, is unnatural in a trout's world. However, I don't feel the need to alter their natural world by removing stuff from it. About the only thing I feel the need to remove from trout streams is man-made litter (although there will probably always be that entrepreneurial trout that has found a way to make that litter their home, like the two big browns in a shopping cart).

If everyone who fished removed four small branches from a stream, we'd have quite the piles of sticks streamside. If everyone who fished piled four small rocks into the tail of a pool, to raise the pool level, we'd have some unfortunate temporary fish barriers (but remedied by the next flood event).

Posted on: 2013/9/25 16:38


Re: Panfish invading a trout stream!

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2012/10/2 8:32
From pgh
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I fished this stream a few weeks back for the first time in over a year...seemed like it was pretty loved then, but I didn't realize how much until reading this thread. Everyone must be doing alright by the fish, or there wouldn't be many left based on the attention they get.
Sunfish were everywhere...and saw the little LM bass, too. Aside from feeding the bigger browns, it would seem that alot of the spawn would get wiped out by these gangs of sunfish. Am I missing something? Seems like 30-40 2 inch bluegill sharing a pool with a few 7 inch trout will make it hard on the trout. BTW, I thought about tossing the sunnies I caught but thought it futile.

Posted on: 2013/9/25 16:40


Re: Panfish invading a trout stream!

Joined:
2010/5/1 9:10
From NE OH
Posts: 1356
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Quote:

salmonoid wrote:

If everyone who fished removed four small branches from a stream, we'd have quite the piles of sticks streamside. If everyone who fished piled four small rocks into the tail of a pool, to raise the pool level, we'd have some unfortunate temporary fish barriers (but remedied by the next flood event).


Then don't do it

Posted on: 2013/9/25 17:04
_________________
"You don't need 7x. All right, 7x...now you're just being stupid. That's ridiculous. You know what else...throw away the 6x, because that's garbage too." -Hank Patterson


Re: Panfish invading a trout stream!

Joined:
2011/5/9 15:37
From Ohio
Posts: 1181
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Quote:
Aside from feeding the bigger browns, it would seem that alot of the spawn would get wiped out by these gangs of sunfish. Am I missing something? Seems like 30-40 2 inch bluegill sharing a pool with a few 7 inch trout will make it hard on the trout. BTW, I thought about tossing the sunnies I caught but thought it futile.


I was thinking the same thing about the spawn of the trout being effected. I guess only time will tell....

And the thought of the panfish competing for food with the trout also crossed my mind, but I noticed that if there were any hungry, non-spooked trout in a pool they were the first fish to attack my fly, not the sunfish. After I caught/missed/spooked the trout the only fish left in the pool that were interested in my flies were the sunnies. So pretty much the trout had first shot at my flies, and if they didn't want them then the panfish could have at it. Just an observation.

Next time I visit the stream will probably be either this winter(if it's not too icy) or next spring sometime. Definitely want to see what the panfish situation is like then.


fwiw, you can keep(not "toss on the bank") 50 panfish a day. With that said I'd be interested in seeing how mother nature handles it..

Posted on: 2013/9/25 17:27


Re: Panfish invading a trout stream!

Joined:
2006/9/21 0:02
From Pittsburgh
Posts: 4352
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There is a pretty large waterfall in the upper part of this stream. Any fish that washed down over it - especially in flood conditions - would have taken quite a beating. And I wonder if they could have survived it. I think that it's possible that those sunfish might have swam up from the larger stream below. Those lower waterfalls aren't very big
I also think that the browns in this stream likely migrated up over those falls from that larger stream - which is stocked. I kinda doubt that they were put directly into it - given it's remote setting

Posted on: 2013/9/25 23:48


Re: Panfish invading a trout stream!

Joined:
2006/12/29 10:00
From Harrisburg
Posts: 2013
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Quote:
Next time I visit the stream will probably be either this winter(if it's not too icy) or next spring sometime. Definitely want to see what the panfish situation is like then.

My experience shows these panfish will be gone, or atleast not bite come winter and spring.
Then some storms will come and a fresh batch will show up.
They just dont seem to prefer waters cold enough for trout to reproduce in.

Posted on: 2013/9/26 5:28


Re: Panfish invading a trout stream!

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2009/4/1 21:52
From Johnstown, PA
Posts: 4469
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Squaretail , Dan..........remember when there were pretty many pickerel in Clarks creek? That co-existence went on for years and maybe still does. It's been awhile since i fished Clarks but there used to be lots of chain pickerel in there and there were days when you could not buy a trout but the pickerel would hit a flashy Clouser Minnnow , mainly early in the year when it was COLD!!!!

Posted on: 2013/9/26 5:49


Re: Panfish invading a trout stream!

Joined:
2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
Posts: 13701
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Quote:
I also think that the browns in this stream likely migrated up over those falls from that larger stream - which is stocked. I kinda doubt that they were put directly into it - given it's remote setting.


Pretty sure it was stocked way back in like the 20's. They moved fish by railroad then, though I don't think this one had a narrow gauge along it. In many cases, with colder streams, they'd put fry and fingerlings in backpacks and take em up in. They still do that in Europe a lot.

Frankly, I think that's how MOST (not all) of PA's wild brown trout populations were originally seeded. The fish from that stream don't resemble modern PFBC brown trout genetics, so I don't think it's a stream that got it's population very recently.


Posted on: 2013/9/26 10:25



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