PFBC Fall stocking: angler feedback

[afishinado]

Just a note / FYI, primarily to Mike K. about fall trout stocking this season in the SE region.

Below in the bottom right hand corner of this page is a poll taken on here concerning fall fishing (the vast majority on here are trout fishing):

110 votes / 105 will fish this fall / while 5 are thinking about it / and 0! will not be fishing!

I am in a unique position, because of my job I talk to 100++ anglers per week for 50 weeks, adding up to many thousands in the course of a year. I can report that this fall there is a great disappointment among many anglers about the low number of trout streams stocked this fall in the SE region, especially the Special Regulation/DH sections.

I understand fall stocking is a victim of cuts that must be made given the lack of funds. But, shifting stocking almost completely to the early spring season leaves many of our streams virtually empty of trout for 9 - 10 months a year. We now end up with decent stocked trout fishing in the spring for the months of April, May and maybe into June, depending on the weather. That's 10 weeks out of 52! I guess that why it is called the season after Labor Day "the extended season."

Further, in the spring, less stocking dates, less fish and less drops when stocking concentrate the fish and the anglers, leaving many stream sections barren of fish. In the fall, the trout have a chance to spread out, making it a better fishing experience for many anglers.

Also, there are many anglers I talk to that do not fish at all in the early season because of the crowds and because the fish unnaturally pod up and do not feed naturally. They choose to fish a little later in the season. These anglers feel they are being short changed with the shortened seasons and the concentrated stocking. All these anglers purchase licenses and trout stamps, too.

We all know angler usage in the fall and winter is light compared to the opening weeks of the season. But, there is steady usage all through the fall and winter and into March in SR streams. 20 or 30 angler visits a week (that's 3 or 4 a day on an entire stream) for 24 weeks in the fall and winter adds up to 600 or 700 visits. That's a whole lotta usage if it were concentrated into a couple of weeks like in the spring.

Many of the anglers on here fish for trout all year long. Many pursue wild trout, but during the fall spawn, and in the winter season a lot of anglers, myself included, target the SR streams closer to home.

Besides, given there are less fish to go around, it makes dollars and sense to spread out the fish and fishing in SR waters. At what point does one start to think about if it's even worth buying a trout stamp for 10 weeks of fishing. That's what I've been hearing from anglers more and more.

There are a lot of disappointed anglers out there and all of them purchase licenses (at least I hope they do). I'm trying to give them a voice with this post.

Anyway...all FYI and IMO.

 

[KeithS]

Good points, Afish. Thanks for using your unique situation in this manner.

 

[geebee]

i will agree - yesterday i travelled 100 miles round trip to the Tully. 2 1/2 hours in total.

primarily because Fishing Creek, Hammer Creek WB Octoraro Creek and White Clay Creek are not stocked.

yes, there are likely some holdover trout THIS Year, but as we have no other wild trout fishing, the single 1 mile DHALO on the Brandywine is pounded to death, as i am sure the Ridley and French creeks short sections are too.

i realize that this is unique to SEPA/Chester Co - but we pay our licence fees too.

if the tully had been too high, i was faced with either fishing cordorus creek (100 miles each way/2 hrs each way), Monocacy/Saucon/LL (ditto each), Pohopoco (ditto again) or the Lehigh (120miles/2 1/2 hours) OR not going trout fishing.

as a resident of chester Co. i'm not sure a PA license is worth it if i have to drive that far from September through March.

Living in Landenberg, I might as well not buy one and buy MD permit for the year round Gunpowder, and a NY one for the Salmon and Delaware rivers.

cheers

Mark.

 

[afishinado]

geebee wrote:
i will agree - yesterday i travelled 100 miles round trip to the Tully. 2 1/2 hours in total.

primarily because Fishing Creek, Hammer Creek WB Octoraro Creek and White Clay Creek are not stocked.

yes, there are likely some holdover trout THIS Year, but as we have no other wild trout fishing, the single 1 mile DHALO on the Brandywine is pounded to death, as i am sure the Ridley and French creeks short sections are too.

i realize that this is unique to SEPA/Chester Co - but we pay our licence fees too.

if the tully had been too high, i was faced with either fishing cordorus creek (100 miles each way/2 hrs each way), Monocacy/Saucon/LL (ditto each), Pohopoco (ditto again) or the Lehigh (120miles/2 1/2 hours) OR not going trout fishing.

as a resident of chester Co. i'm not sure a PA license is worth it if i have to drive that far from September through March.

Living in Landenberg, I might as well not buy one and buy MD permit for the year round Gunpowder, and a NY one for the Salmon and Delaware rivers.

cheers

Mark.

Mark,

French FFCR is not stocked in the fall and hasn't been for a long time.

Here is the list of Phila area streams stocked in the fall by County:

- Bucks: EB Perkiomen (ATW)

- Chester: EB Brandywine (DH)

- Delaware: Ridley (CRFF & ATW)

- Montgomery/Phila: Pennypack (ATW)

Just two special regulation streams (Ridley and Brandywine) and four streams total were stocked this fall in the 5 county area in and around Philly, yet the Phila area has by far the most license sales of any area of the state.

 

[outsider]

Didn't see the poll, add one more who fishes in the fall and winter.

 

[afishinado]

outsider wrote:
Didn't see the poll, add one more who fishes in the fall and winter.

Poll link

 

[geebee]

outsider wrote:
Didn't see the poll, add one more who fishes in the fall and winter.

to the right ----->

underneath the Trident fly fishing Ad


Afish - my bad. it reiterates the point further.

with no other trout fishing - other than ponds, we are basically buggered in the fall.

 

[streamerguy]

Good post. And the stockie chaser side of me agrees with all of your points.

The opportunities in the fall/winter are dwindling. Not just the number of streams stocked, but the number of fish stocked as well.

Also, the lack of winter stockings(at certain waterways) is another thing to think about. The January stocking at my local stockie river ended two years ago. It was always nice to have that extra batch of fish(along with the fall stockies) to catch on a winter afternoon when I need to cure cabin fever, but those winter(and fall) fish also added to the spring fish as well! Even though the river sees a ton of harvest there were usually plenty of trout still around for the caddis hatches in May and early June.

Even without a winter stocking the river still fished great this spring, but I think it was the result of all the high water that kept a lot of fish from getting roped up. With the lower fall numbers, and NO winter stockings, who knows how good it's gonna be this winter/spring....

And I sure miss fishing some other streams that used to be stocked in the fall. Sure, there's wild trout options, but part of me still likes to catch pelletheads :-D Especially since there are(or used to be) a decent amount of options for stockies pretty to home in the fall....

 

[geebee]

i would like to know the likely winter kill of rainbow trout - as SG says above, i feel that many of the fall stockings supllement the spring stocking.

would it not make more sense to stock half in October and half in Spring ?

 

[SNJChef]

Is there a lot of clubs that stock late fall or winter in the SE area? I was speaking to a gentleman on the Ridley and he mentioned years ago he belonged to a club that would stock only in the winter. Their dues went to winter stocking only on 2 streams he said the guys got to old and the club folded but it was an interesting idea.

 

[tomitrout]

This thread really makes me appreciate the fact that I don't live in the SE region...

 

[laszlo]

I thought I'd take advantage of the fall stocking of Muddy Creek York, Co Fri Oct. 10. It was supposed to have been stocked Oct 9. Although the water was low no stocked trout were to be found in the 4 hours I was there, or just maybe they did not stock the Bridgeton area. Only managed one wild brown.

 

[dubthethorax]

I for one consider myself very lucky to live right on the east branch perkiomen which still gets a fall stocking (thanks Mike!)

I was surprised about three weeks before the early October stocking to come across about half a dozen brown trout that managed to survive the entire summer and worm dunkers with the low warm water. They were feeding happily on midges and I left them alone. They were in some relatively unfished water in the middle of the woods where most anglers avoid because of the high vegetation and ticks in the summer.

We did get the fall stocking this year and there were a decent amount of fish. Unfortunately, the majority of them podded up in a few holes where the dry wall bucket power bait crew were hot and heavy, and wiped out a good majority of them in the first three days. There are still a few that traveled and can be found in some more remote water, which I'm saving for winter fishing.

That being said, I did catch what was probably the biggest fish that was stocked this fall. Surprised the hell out of me on a 3 weight. He was safely released. (and yes, I tried not to put him down on the ground but he was flipping out). Total hog stockie.

 

[Millsertime]

Wow. I guess some of us should consider ourselves fortunate to live where we live (pertaining to fishing). I don't envy the driving Geebee has to do to find fish.

 

[streamerguy]

Millsertime wrote:
Wow. I guess some of us should consider ourselves fortunate to live where we live (pertaining to fishing). I don't envy the driving Geebee has to do to find fish.

Yeah. I didn't realize SEPA was that bad(or is it?). The closest PA stockie stream to me is about 15 miles away, and the closest good wild stream is about 45 miles. I guess I don't have it as bad as I thought!

 

[WildTigerTrout]

I am glad I live where I do. I have quite a few choices close by and the vast majority are wild trout streams. My favorite stocked FFO stream is no longer any good since they decided not to stock it at all in the spring and stock it only with fingerlings in the fall. I guess to help the predators get through the winter. I say this because they started a three year study that has become an exercise in futility. The first year they shocked it in august following a october stocking the fall before they found 6 trout left out of the original 5000! What a waste of money. Rather than admit defeat they will continue the program for the next two years and waste even more money. Oh well the raccoons and blue herons are happy! The flyfisherman who used to fish there however are NOT happy.

 

[streamerguy]

In regards to the fish surviving throughout the winter, I once read(on here maybe??) that they don't survive because of the low oxygen levels once the streams get low and start to develop ice. I could be wrong though.

I can see this being a problem on the small stocked streams, but from my experiences the stockies seem to do fine on the bigger streams/rivers.

With that said, the steelhead in the Erie tribs(which most of them in PA are pretty small, and upper Elk) don't have any problems. Maybe someone more knowledgeable will chime in....

 

[streamerguy]

WildTigerTrout wrote:
I am glad I live where I do. I have quite a few choices close by and the vast majority are wild trout streams. My favorite stocked FFO stream is no longer any good since they decided not to stock it at all in the spring and stock it only with fingerlings in the fall. I guess to help the predators get through the winter. I say this because they started a three year study that has become an exercise in futility. The first year they shocked it in august following a october stocking the fall before they found 6 trout left out of the original 5000! What a waste of money. Rather than admit defeat they will continue the program for the next two years and waste even more money. Oh well the raccoons and blue herons are happy! The flyfisherman who used to fish there however are NOT happy.

Same situation with a stream I fish. I even electrofished it with the PFBC this summer and we turned up very, very few stocked fingerlings. Thankfully I believe this fall is the last of the fingerling stockings there. It didn't take very long at all to figure out the program wasn't working, and the electrofishing results proved it. The only good thing is there may be some BIG wild fish that snacked on those little troot!

To top it off, that stream doesn't need to be stocked at all to begin with. Or at least just some adult stockies in the least productive sections. Definitely a waste of money that could've been used to stock other streams.....

 

[Maurice]

In our FFO the fall stocked bows holdover pretty well into spring...and they look pretty good by december January once their fins grow back from that chopped up appearance when they are stocked.

This is a good thread...this past Sunday I went fishing. Got there and no one in parking lot. Then somebody pulled in. I fished for two hours and went back to car....now three cars there. Drove downstream to the wire and fished there for an hour and then left, went past the same lot and there were two more different cars. Thats five cars/fishermen at least in three hours at the lower end. Fade was at the upper end with two fishermen, not sure if he saw anyone else.

I think its shameful how fall stocked trout fishing has been kicked to the curb in PA,. Especially SEPA. IMHO, I believe the WCOs and Biologists should be tasked with creating better alternative solutions rather than cutting the opportunities off at the knees. Anyone can if asked find a way to save dough. Even if the kids don't eat. Afterall the F&BC is supposed to be about creating fishing opportunities not eliminating them.

 

[dubthethorax]

streamerguy wrote:

Millsertime wrote:
Wow. I guess some of us should consider ourselves fortunate to live where we live (pertaining to fishing). I don't envy the driving Geebee has to do to find fish.

Yeah. I didn't realize SEPA was that bad(or is it?). The closest PA stockie stream to me is about 15 miles away, and the closest good wild stream is about 45 miles. I guess I don't have it as bad as I thought!

I lucked out with the stocked stream (which is honestly probably the only reason I agreed with my wife on buying this house in this area because its also excellent bass water in the summer), but the closest wild stream is still a good 35-45 min with traffic.