PFBC Commissioners and Tailwater Wild Trout-Article

This is fantastic news. Seems as if the Pfbc has finally realized the potential, that many of us talked about and have tried to fight for. I am currently drafting a letter on behalf of WPTU, and with the backing from LCFA, LRSA, and Pohopoco Rod and Gun Club, to investigate further the Pohopoco Creek tailwater potential. This article puts hope in what many of us thought was possibly a lost cause

The Pfbc's possible change of stance on the Lehigh is finally some good news for all that have worked hard over the years to see the Lehigh become a great tailwater. Still a lot of work to do, but the LCFA and others should be beaming with pride, on what they have accomplished!
 
I wonder what the guys who like to fish for bass and walleyes below the Raystown Dam think about this. I wonder how far down the main Juniata River this could affect. (this coming from one who fishes almost exclusively for trout)
 
RRT - do smallmouth and walleye like 60 degree water?

If managed properly, I doubt there will be any affect to the Juniata.

And, how many good tailwaters trout fisheries do we have in PA vs coolwater/warm water fisheries?
 
I can't really answer your questions, though smallies around here seem to favor water that gets into the 70's and 80's, water that is too warm for trout. I just wonder what the warmwater enthusiasts in Huntingdon and elsewhere who frequent the warm, running water below the dam will think and how they'll react. We trout enthusiasts aren't the only fishermen out there. This could open a can of worms that might be pretty unpleasant.
 
DGC,
great post..kinda nice that a few of these mentioned are located in the eastern part of the state,Francis Walter Dam { Lehigh River}, Beltzville Dam {Pohopoco a trib of the mighty Lehigh river},Lake Wallenpaupack Dam{Lackawaxen River a trib of the Delaware},and even the Cannonsville Dam { West Branch of the Delaware river}.
Imho theres still a need for better habitat restoration,company like CFI Global Fisheries does some really amazing stuff to make good fisheries even better...heres a link check it out:

http://www.cfiglobal.com/index.html

i have fished a few of these projects before an after they have done work on em out west.Man the places i have fished were good but man o man they were really good when they finished.
All the cold water in the world wont do you no good unless you have the invertabrates an habiat to increase better fish holding lies.
I cant imagine what the Raystown Dam /Juniata would be like if they got it cold like the Delaware or the Pohopoco.....some folks would never have to leave central pa,between the spring creeks/limestoners/freestoners..and a great Tailwater?sheesh
 
RRT - No one likes change, especially to their "own" personal waterway. But I don't think those that are affected by any changes should hold the PFBC hostage when they are trying to improve our states resources, with in reason.

See, Midnight Anglers post

http://www.paflyfish.com/forums/open-forums/paflyfish-general-forum/how-to-establish-fly-only-catch-and-release-stretches/2,26456,0,30,0,0,ASC.html

This policy is good for PA trout fisheries, good for PA Anglers, good for PA's economy too. If the agencies caved to everyone's complaints, there would be no state highway system either.

My bet is if managed properly, both smallie, walleye and trout will provide a really nice fishery.
 
RRT,
it is my understanding that the Juniata hasnt fished as good as it used to for over a decade.I am not saying that the fishing is bad,but my understanding is that it had dropped from its former glory for smallmouth.I know a few guys that used to drive out there alot to fish the Juniata an had relayed that it was not the fishery it had been.I also know that theres alot of things that have to have a say before the water would get changed.
I do know that when you have a tailwater an the releases are too cold you lose some hatches,then again you get certain hatches that just welll kick butt as well.
I really like fishing the Pohopoco, but the average fish unless yer targeting the tube isnt anything to write home about.It does have nice hatches though an the water is always cold all summer above that dam in perryville.that impoundment doesnt help the temps for water leaving it as much as if there was no impoundment IMHO.
YMMV.
 
Actually, the Parryville dam does not affect temperatures below. I have personally done temp studies, thinking it did. The biggest problem of the damn dam is fish movement. However, it has been pretty well established that the dam is not going anywhere. Palmerton boro profits from selling the water to Horseheads corp. The pump house behind the dam is gravity fed, and the structure is needed for this to work. LRSA has received the grant money to purchase and install a Alaskan steep ladder, but the Pfbc will not release the money.
 
Wish they would look at the Allegehny res.
The river could be a Big Brown Mecca if they would control the stinking temp fluctuations.
 
This is fantastic news for the Lehigh. Hopefully PFBC has enough pull with the ACOE to get some changes made. The biggest hurdle will be securing the funds need to make changes to the tower, and changing their operating mode to allow more storage in the reservoir.
LehighRegular had said recently that studies were recently under way or completed showing the full potential to release cold water all year from FEW. Any idea when that data will be released?
 
Regarding the Raystown Branch, the temperature and volumes of the releases could be tailored to provide good trout fishing from the dam to the mouth, without having much effect on the smallmouth fishery on the Juniata.

They can adjust things so that the temperatures at the mouth is about 70-74F degrees on a warm summer day. Which is about what you find at lower end of the Little Juniata on a warm summer day.

That would keep the trout thriving from the dam to the mouth. And have little, if any, negative effect on the Juniata smallmouth fishery. It might even help the lower end of the Juniata smallmouth fishery.

I think part of the problem with the smallmouth fishery in the Susquehanna and Juniata and other rivers is excessive temperatures. Most tributaries and headwaters streams that feed the rivers have temperatures that are elevated far above normal, because of loss of riparian shade, and warming from impoundments, sewage plants, etc. I've taken water temps up to 90F in the Susquehanna. Overly warm temps lead to lower oxygen levels, and perhaps more bacterial infections of fish.

So a little nudge towards slightly cooler temps in the Juniata could be more of a "correction" than an "impact."
 
Cold waters in the northern part of our country don't seem to affect the smallmouth fisheries up there. I hope it could be manged to positively impact both.
 
Studiomule

The Corps is drafting the report for the modeling study for the FEW Reservoir/Lehigh River. I would expect a draft by the end of the month and the report put out to the public by the end of the year. At the earliest maybe at the Fall public meeting with the agencies (DCNR, ACOE and PFBC) there may be some information given about the results.
 
In regards to the concern over the Smallies...there is always a lot of talk of their optimum temperature being in the mid 80's for activity/metabolism, and that is probably likely the case. IMO however, Smallmouth fisheries tend to be healthier at lower maximum Summer temps...say in the upper 70's/low 80's. Less DO issues, less algae blooms, less baking of the YOY in the shallows. Sure the fish may grow a little slower, but I think that is overcome by higher survival rates from year to year due to less stress/disease and less freqent DO related small scale fish kills.

Smallmouth are still very active at 75 deg water temp, plenty active to chase and pursue flies or lures aggressively. Heck, the biggest Smallies every year are pulled out of the water prespawn in March/April it seems like. Granted they're not chasing top-waters then, but they still fish pretty well in cooler water.

I agree with tb...I think you can manage a tailrace for both Trout and Smallies. Naturally it will be more trout the closer you get to the dam, transitioning to more Smallies as you get further downstream, but overall I think the net gain to the watershed/fishery outweighs the net loss in this scenario.
 
I think that smallies prefer water less than 80 F. In my experience with lakes in Maine, they're much more active in shallow water when the temperature is around 75 degrees.

Colder water holds more oxygen (unless it's really cold), and that's a major benefit for smallmouth habitat overall, even if the releases would push their preferred range downstream from the source for a few miles. It's also good for the invertebrates.

I fished the Potomac around Seneca for a short while last evening, wading wet. That water is warm (and very low, with a lot of exposed weed beds). I didn't have my thermometer with me, but it had to have been well over 80 degrees. I did notice some surface activity that seemed to be from adult-size bass, but not that much. I think smallmouth bass prefer deep water and shade when it gets that warm, and they're active in the shallows mostly at night and in the early morning. To the extent that they show up there at all. That's been my experience, anyway.
 
rrt wrote:
I can't really answer your questions, though smallies around here seem to favor water that gets into the 70's and 80's, water that is too warm for trout. I just wonder what the warmwater enthusiasts in Huntingdon and elsewhere who frequent the warm, running water below the dam will think and how they'll react. We trout enthusiasts aren't the only fishermen out there. This could open a can of worms that might be pretty unpleasant.
Click to expand...

For river smallmouth I think when temps get into the 80s that's quickly moving out of their optimal comfort zone. I think the 70s are more optimal for them and they're still very active in the 60s. On the Lehigh I think you would have a great mix of fabulous wild trout water along with great smallie fishing, just as almost exists now. The trout would dominate the upper area of the gorge but as you moved downriver you would get a great mix of trout/smallies and then eventually giving way to predominantly smallies. The economic impact of an optimal wild trout fishery here would be outstanding and fit exactly within the increasing recreational lean of most of the local towns economies now. If you add a very good year-round wild trout fishery to the hiking, biking, and rafting that already exists you would really see a very robust, diverse and sustainable economy From a water recreation aspect by basically just catering to the rafting enthusiasts these towns are missing out. Trout anglers, expecially flyfishers, tend to stay for several days to a week per trip and spend money locally where they're fishing. Rafters are typically here for a day, some may visit a restaurant when they're done but I think most head right home, maybe getting gas/food at a convenience store or fast food joint.

I'm not exactly sure of the price tage but I think the cost to modify the release tower at the dam would likely pay for itself within 5-10yrs.
 
Swattie87 wrote:
In regards to the concern over the Smallies...there is always a lot of talk of their optimum temperature being in the mid 80's for activity/metabolism, and that is probably likely the case. IMO however, Smallmouth fisheries tend to be healthier at lower maximum Summer temps...say in the upper 70's/low 80's. Less DO issues, less algae blooms, less baking of the YOY in the shallows. Sure the fish may grow a little slower, but I think that is overcome by higher survival rates from year to year due to less stress/disease and less freqent DO related small scale fish kills.

Smallmouth are still very active at 75 deg water temp, plenty active to chase and pursue flies or lures aggressively. Heck, the biggest Smallies every year are pulled out of the water prespawn in March/April it seems like. Granted they're not chasing top-waters then, but they still fish pretty well in cooler water.
Click to expand...

Related to this theme that moderate temperatures may be better than extremely warm for smallmouth. A friend of mine takes trips to Maine for the smallmouth fishing, which he says is terrific. I imagine it can get pretty warm up there in the summer too, but surely the water temperatures in the rivers that far north must be lower than in our rivers. And the smallmouth thrive there.


 
I took the temperature of Maine's Androscoggin River at Leeds a few days ago (just a brief stop, no fishing). 78-79 degrees. The fishing has supposedly been excellent there.

I was fishing nearby lakes- the water there was a little cooler, 74-77 degrees. Got fish nearly every outing, most of them on top. Did most of my fishing from 1 hour before sunset to dark-thirty, and predawn to 7am (before 6am was best.) Just casting off the bank, over rocky drop-offs. I liked using a big Shenk's Sculpin fished dry the most, but everything I put on got action. Biggest hassle was the little sunnies pecking at my flies. I can't help thinking that they tip off the bass that the lure is a fake.
 
High 70s-low 80s for smallies I am sure is thriving water for them when it is clean. But those once-preferred temps and the toxic soup that seems to now be the norm on some of our once former 'world-class' fisheries is a whole 'nother story.
 
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