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Re: New Zealand Mud Snails and felt sole boots

Joined:
2007/10/7 0:44
From philadelphia
Posts: 876
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If there were any evidence that well dried between trips felt was worse for the environment,I would stop using felt.

If you have two or more pairs of shoes ,it easy to dry them between watersheds .

Posted on: 12/24 18:15


Re: New Zealand Mud Snails and felt sole boots

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2007/6/19 21:49
From Lancaster County
Posts: 1541
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What quantity of science is needed to stack up on the invasives' movement vectors measuring stick?

It's not like there are no studies that support felt as a mechanism for moving microscopic invasives.

http://www.stopans.org/Science_of_felt.php

With the "prove it to me first" attitudes that seem to prevail in this thread, I'll venture to say that we are assured of angling gear continuing to be an invasive movement vector in PA waters. I continue to believe that banning felt is a knee-jerk but it's also a whole lot easier and cheaper to go on a globetrotting fishing spree today than it was 40 years ago. If you want to ignore the science, at least don't ignore the unpublished common sense that you as an angler are a potential carrier of invasives. Whether there is a scientific paper that documents it or not, there is Didymo in the Delaware and Pine Creek (and elsewhere) and there are New Zealand mud snails in Spring.

Posted on: 12/24 19:56


Re: New Zealand Mud Snails and felt sole boots

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2006/9/11 13:33
From Lehigh Valley
Posts: 3342
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Quote:

salmonoid wrote:
...it's also a whole lot easier and cheaper to go on a globetrotting fishing spree today than it was 40 years ago. If you want to ignore the science, at least don't ignore the unpublished common sense that you as an angler are a potential carrier of invasives.


This.

Didymo is not native to New Zealand, but it is to North America.

There is now didymo in some New Zealand trout streams/rivers.

There is New Zealand mud snails in a PA trout stream(s).

Let's blame the ducks.

Posted on: 12/24 23:14
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Re: New Zealand Mud Snails and felt sole boots

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2011/5/26 10:12
From Dauphin PA
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The kiwis are mad and trying to get even with us. That all.

Posted on: 12/25 8:12
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Re: New Zealand Mud Snails and felt sole boots
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2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
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.....They present the complete results of their work in a scholarly article published in Fisheries http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wat/wq/studies/didymo-blooms.pdf. In the course of their research they noted a significant relationship between the presence of didymo and the presence of anglers. They particularly note rivers in which didymo is not found upstream of angler access points and rivers that are closed to fishing that are surrounded by didymo but remain free of it. They reference a number of other well documented examples from around the world that illustrate the connection between wading anglers and the spread of didymo.

Why Focus on Felt?

With overwhelming evidence that fishing boots are spreading invasives the attention has turned to how to minimize the risk that anglers are transporting didymo. Research has shown that there are some practical options for killing didymo on fishing equipment http://www.biosecurity.govt.nz/files/ ... con-feb-05-rev-aug-06.pdf. Heat, cold, drying and exposure to chemicals are all effective at killing the algae so the issue becomes, how does an average angler achieve the lethal levels for any of these methods?

When researchers looked at this question it became obvious that felt presented disinfection problems that other materials did not. The main reason for this is the nature of the felt material. Felt is constructed as a dense mat of randomly woven fibers. It has large interstitial spaces that can be a perfect trap for any small material. Gates, in the study referenced above, did extensive work to determine the relative ability of various wader materials to trap WD spores. In her experiments, felt trapped 100% of the WD spores that it was exposed to while rubber trapped none. This is dramatic evidence that felt soles present a much greater risk of transport than rubber soles.

However, as already noted, there are effective methods for killing didymo and it is logical to assume that felt can be disinfected using these techniques. Unfortunately, research from New Zealand shows that disinfecting felt soles is much more difficult than might be expected. Quite simply, the nature of the felt material is such that live didymo cells could easily penetrate the interior layers of the felt soles but treatment methods for killing didymo are ineffective at disinfecting these inner layers. Thus, even after following recommended decontamination procedures, it was likely that felt soled boots were still spreading didymo.

In their paper titled Studies on the survivability of the invasive diatom Didymosphenia geminata under a range of environmental and chemical conditions, http://www.biosecurity.govt.nz/files/ ... val-dec-06-rev-may-07.pdf the researchers fully document their results. In their experiments felt soled boots that were examined 5 hours after use in infested waters contained nearly 3,000 times more live didymo cells than rubber soles (11,000 on felt vs. 3.9 on rubber). At 36 hours, a second careful cleaning yielded significant numbers of live cells from the felt soles and no live or dead cells from the rubber soles (290 on felt vs. 0 on rubber). We should note here that both leather shoe uppers and neoprene materials also held live cells at 36 hours but at much lower levels than the felt.

Careful experiments were then conducted to judge the efficacy of the various treatments for killing all of the live cells that might be trapped on waders. The results showed that most of the recommended treatments were effective at killing all of the cells found on most parts of the boot but that felt soles were an exception and it was difficult to achieve a complete kill of didymo trapped in felt soles. Specifically, the authors concluded:
• Felt soles present a greater risk of transfer than the other materials tested.
• Soaking in a disinfectant solution is far more effective than spraying (spraying was deemed to be totally ineffective)
• Even after 20 minutes of soaking, the disinfectant does not fully penetrate all areas of the felt sole
• Complete drying of felt soles is very difficult – soles can remain damp for weeks
• Heating the boots to 45°C (113°F) for at least 20 minutes will disinfect the soles

Based on the results of this research New Zealand determined that felt represents a unique threat that could only be adequately addressed through a complete ban. That ban is now in place and all New Zealand anglers are now felt free. With an Alaskan felt ban already approved and other US felt bans being considered we can expect that the move to eliminate felt will grow quickly.

What Does This Mean for Anglers

There is well documented scientific proof that felt represents a special problem in wading boots. Although many boot parts are capable of trapping and carrying aquatic invasive species (AIS), the difficulties of disinfecting felt make it very different from the rest of the boot parts. While the elimination of any boot part that could trap or transport AIS is beneficial and should be encouraged, the move to eliminate felt is a prudent and appropriate response to the threat it poses.

We need to recognize that much of the motivation for eliminating felt is focused on didymo. An argument can be made that felt only matters when the invasive species is microscopic and that any larger invader will be on the surface of the felt where it can be removed or killed. In fact, this is true. If the organisms are on the surface of the felt they can be eliminated. However, didymo is only one of our microscopic invaders. It has already been demonstrated that felt can easily trap and transport whirling disease spores and we must be realistic and recognize that there are likely new microscopic invaders still to come. Thus, it is only prudent that we move away from felt.

The debate over the effectiveness of rubber soles verses felt will continue to rage and there is no doubt that some anglers will insist that their recreational desires should take precedence over the resource issue. However, the move to eliminate felt is based on conclusive scientific proof that it represents a special threat. Companies, organizations and agencies are all accepting of this and the move away from felt will continue to grow. Anglers may not like the change and some will be vocal in their opposition. However, we should all make sure that any argument is based on sound science. The science shows that felt is a special problem and anyone disputing that has nothing to back their claims.

Finally, we must realize that felt is only one part of the problem. As already mentioned, there are many other places where invasives can be trapped and transported in our boots and other gear. We must adopt new habits that include careful cleaning after each use. While switching to felt-free waders is a good thing, it is just one step in the process of becoming a clean angler. Any one of us could be the person to carry an invader to a new water and none of us wants to be that person. Inspect, Clean and Dry your gear after each use and you will help to protect the resource that we all depend upon.

Unfortunately, increasing numbers of anglers are hearing the argument of no science and angler manipulation and some are passing it on as truth to others. This provides an excuse to anyone who wants to avoid switching to felt-free boots and erodes public confidence in fishery managers and science


Link to source: http://www.stopans.org/Science_of_felt.php

Posted on: 12/25 9:58

Edited by afishinado on 2013/12/25 10:16:19
Edited by afishinado on 2013/12/25 10:19:07


Re: New Zealand Mud Snails and felt sole boots
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/9 9:29
From Monessen, PA
Posts: 22413
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So a semi-porous material is worse than a less-semi-porous material if you don't decontaminate it? Gotcha.

Posted on: 12/25 10:56
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Re: New Zealand Mud Snails and felt sole boots
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
Posts: 9061
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Quote:

JackM wrote:
So a semi-porous material is worse than a less-semi-porous material if you don't decontaminate it? Gotcha.


When researchers looked at this question it became obvious that felt presented disinfection problems that other materials did not. The main reason for this is the nature of the felt material. Felt is constructed as a dense mat of randomly woven fibers. It has large interstitial spaces that can be a perfect trap for any small material. Gates, in the study referenced above, did extensive work to determine the relative ability of various wader materials to trap WD spores. In her experiments, felt trapped 100% of the WD spores that it was exposed to while rubber trapped none. This is dramatic evidence that felt soles present a much greater risk of transport than rubber soles.

However, as already noted, there are effective methods for killing didymo and it is logical to assume that felt can be disinfected using these techniques. Unfortunately, research from New Zealand shows that disinfecting felt soles is much more difficult than might be expected. Quite simply, the nature of the felt material is such that live didymo cells could easily penetrate the interior layers of the felt soles but treatment methods for killing didymo are ineffective at disinfecting these inner layers. Thus, even after following recommended decontamination procedures, it was likely that felt soled boots were still spreading didymo.

Careful experiments were then conducted to judge the efficacy of the various treatments for killing all of the live cells that might be trapped on waders. The results showed that most of the recommended treatments were effective at killing all of the cells found on most parts of the boot but that felt soles were an exception and it was difficult to achieve a complete kill of didymo trapped in felt soles. Specifically, the authors concluded:
• Felt soles present a greater risk of transfer than the other materials tested.
• Soaking in a disinfectant solution is far more effective than spraying (spraying was deemed to be totally ineffective)
• Even after 20 minutes of soaking, the disinfectant does not fully penetrate all areas of the felt sole
• Complete drying of felt soles is very difficult – soles can remain damp for weeks
• Heating the boots to 45°C (113°F) for at least 20 minutes will disinfect the soles


Posted on: 12/25 11:03


Re: New Zealand Mud Snails and felt sole boots
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/9 9:29
From Monessen, PA
Posts: 22413
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Send me a free pair of new boots and I'll become sanctimonious as well.

Posted on: 12/25 11:17
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Peace, Tony


Re: New Zealand Mud Snails and felt sole boots

Joined:
2006/9/15 9:32
From Hershey, PA
Posts: 26
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You know if I really thought you'd wear them, I would buy you a pair of rubber soled boots. However with your "the hell with the environment attitude" it would probably be a waste of money.

Posted on: 12/25 11:28


Re: New Zealand Mud Snails and felt sole boots

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2011/5/26 10:12
From Dauphin PA
Posts: 2766
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Is that you Larry?

Posted on: 12/25 11:48
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Re: New Zealand Mud Snails and felt sole boots

Joined:
2006/9/15 9:32
From Hershey, PA
Posts: 26
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Yep. Who's this?

Posted on: 12/25 12:31


Re: New Zealand Mud Snails and felt sole boots
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/9 9:29
From Monessen, PA
Posts: 22413
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Size 11. PM for address.

Posted on: 12/25 13:24
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Re: New Zealand Mud Snails and felt sole boots

Joined:
2011/5/26 10:12
From Dauphin PA
Posts: 2766
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I'll give you a hint........ I netted your 26-27" brown near Benner Springs one day in the pouring rain (maybe 1995-ish), I got you to love the Delaware River and by the way..... Josh says "HI". LMAO.

Posted on: 12/25 14:11
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"Excelling at making people angry since 1967"


Re: New Zealand Mud Snails and felt sole boots

Joined:
2006/9/15 9:32
From Hershey, PA
Posts: 26
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Oh yea I do remember. Haven't seen you in quite a while.

Posted on: 12/25 14:49


Re: New Zealand Mud Snails and felt sole boots

Joined:
2011/5/26 10:12
From Dauphin PA
Posts: 2766
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Working at an insurance agency in Hershey and fish a couple times a season. Josh said he sees you out every now and then. You still hate the over-rated Delaware? I do 95% of my fishing in that area.

Posted on: 12/25 15:00
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"Excelling at making people angry since 1967"



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