New Rulemaking Proposal PFBC (Pinners in the FFO Areas)

[Maurice]

A new Rule Making Proposal #264 just hit the PF&BC page.

Its names the Simplification and Consolidation of Regulations.

Many of the 9 major item categories involve mundane Summary Book Changes to language, symantics on baitfish, size, lake regulations, Elimination of the WBTEP program, etc. But one in particular may be of interest to this board.

#8 8)
In § 65.14, {C&R FFO Areas}
the Commission proposes that the reference to single hooks be removed to clarify that multiple hooks are permitted. The Commission also proposes that the reference to “flyline with a maximum of 18 feet in leader material or monofilament line attached” be removed to eliminate a gray area regarding center-pinning techniques, which is becoming a popular technique to fish nymphs and utilizes a much longer leader.
To eliminate confusion and having to name or describe all prohibited lures and substances, the Commission further proposes deleting the list of prohibited items in favor of naming the permitted lures and substances only.


View the whole proposal here

What are your thoughts on letting Center Pinning into FFO areas?

I mean its NOT fly fishing. Meaning the line is not delivering the fly.

Comment period is April 4 - may 4.

 

[MHanes]

I don't know if centerpinning was the best way to justify that proposal. But the leader length is pointless at 18' like a WCO is going to measure that ever.

 

[MHanes]

The hook deal removes gray area with multi fly rigs. I have heard guys confused about that.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

Centerpinning is not fly fishing.

 

[franklin]

I wondered if the PFBC ever went to the trouble of actually measuring the length of "leader" someone was using. Reason I mention is that a few years ago a friend of mine in the plastics business had me try out a prototype fly line which had the last few feet being of a clear material. The total length of the clear section along with my leader was something like 23 feet. (The product idea never went into production.)

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

What is their deal lately?

 

[Maurice]

The_Sasquatch wrote:
Centerpinning is not fly fishing.

Yeah, I think someone needs to open the windows at those Commission Meetings. There must be residual paint fumes or other toxic substances making those old dudes fuzzy.

I can hear them..."hey Bob the other day I was fishing and this guy had this big fly reel on a really long rod. I said hey I never saw a fly reel that big, why do you cast it like that?" Other guy says "its a Center pin, free reverse spin spool so I can get these loooong drifts in front of and all the other anglers around me." Then the Commissioner says, well it LOOKS like a fly reel, Why no fly line?" Cuz it ain't fly fishing, its spin fishing with the reel turned 90 degrees." Commissioner says, "Well it Looks like fly fishing to me...Would you like to fish that way in the FFO areas?"

Let me see what I can do.... :-D

 

[Maurice]

franklin wrote:
I wondered if the PFBC ever went to the trouble of actually measuring the length of "leader" someone was using. Reason I mention is that a few years ago a friend of mine in the plastics business had me try out a prototype fly line which had the last few feet being of a clear material. The total length of the clear section along with my leader was something like 23 feet. (The product idea never went into production.)

Were you using it at an FFO area?

 

[Troy]

salvelinusfontinalis wrote:
What is their deal lately?

I know. It's like they declared war against fly fishing and catch and release. It is just weird because as a whole fly fishers care about the sport more than fishermen using other methods. I am not lumping together all fly fishers and all non fly fishers in my statement.

 

[shortrod2]

I don't know much about either of these methods but is center pinning all that much different from tight-line czech/polish nymphing that also does not use the weight of the line to deliver the fly?

 

[jay348]

These guys are on a roll :roll:

 

[The_Sasquatch]

shortrod2 wrote:
I don't know much about either of these methods but is center pinning all that much different from tight-line czech/polish nymphing that also does not use the weight of the line to deliver the fly?

Don't know, and I don't care. It's not a fly rod, fly reel, fly line. The hardware alone takes it out of the "fly fishing" category.

 

[tomitrout]

yeah, especially when this is in the Regs that Maurice just linked:

(2) Fishing shall be done with tackle which is limited to fly rods[,] and fly reels [and fly line
with a maximum of 18 feet in leader material or monofilament line attached]. Spinning,
spincast and casting rods and reels are prohibited.

Is a centerpin reel a fly reel? I also don't know much of anything about the tackle or technique..

 

[Cold]

I don't know much about either of these methods but is center pinning all that much different from tight-line czech/polish nymphing that also does not use the weight of the line to deliver the fly?

Totally different.

But you bring up a good point about some of the various nymphing techniques, which is why I think that the 18 ft leader limit is probably the best simple cutoff. It may rule out some spanish nymphing, but other than that, it pretty neatly delineates fly fishing from other forms of fishing in a simple regulation that's easy to evaluate.

 

[franklin]

Maurice wrote:

franklin wrote:
I wondered if the PFBC ever went to the trouble of actually measuring the length of "leader" someone was using. Reason I mention is that a few years ago a friend of mine in the plastics business had me try out a prototype fly line which had the last few feet being of a clear material. The total length of the clear section along with my leader was something like 23 feet. (The product idea never went into production.)

Were you using it at an FFO area?

Yes. The point is that the rule is written around old technology. It's possible to make fly lines and leaders that still use the weight of the line to cast the fly but not completely conform to the letter of the law. (Or at least appear to violate.) I can understand that the PFBC would write a rule based on a specific technology because it's easier to enforce. But if a manufacturer made a clear fly line that looked like thick mono but behaved like a traditional fly line how would they interpret the rule?

 

[tomitrout]

But if a manufacturer made a clear fly line that looked like thick mono but behaved like a traditional fly line how would they interpret the rule?

Regardless of color, if it's continuous with the colored body of the fly line, ie no knots or loops, I think it's still fly line. If the clear tip section is knotted or looped onto the end of the colored body, then it might be considered part of the leader setup...

 

[Maurice]

franklin wrote:

Maurice wrote:

franklin wrote:
I wondered if the PFBC ever went to the trouble of actually measuring the length of "leader" someone was using. Reason I mention is that a few years ago a friend of mine in the plastics business had me try out a prototype fly line which had the last few feet being of a clear material. The total length of the clear section along with my leader was something like 23 feet. (The product idea never went into production.)

Were you using it at an FFO area?

Yes. The point is that the rule is written around old technology. It's possible to make fly lines and leaders that still use the weight of the line to cast the fly but not completely conform to the letter of the law. (Or at least appear to violate.) I can understand that the PFBC would write a rule based on a specific technology because it's easier to enforce. But if a manufacturer made a clear fly line that looked like thick mono but behaved like a traditional fly line how would they interpret the rule?

I would hope that hey would interpret that as Its fly line. Not a leader....If there is a break between the two.

I used a clear flyline for steelheading 20+ years ago that a shop owner wanted me to try...It just seemend like Mono that was thick and heavy. But attached to it was a leader of a specific length.

I think its pretty clear where the flyline ends and the leader begins...don't you?

 

[Mike]

I should come here to learn about PFBC a proposals, as I had never even heard the words center pinning mentioned within Agency circles. The first and only time that I ever saw the technique practiced was last year by a bait angler. He had a fly rod with mono on what looked to be a large arbor fly reel. Terminal tackle was a small strike indicator and a hook with corn or power bait. Once the line was dropped in the water dead center in the current the reel began to back spin very smoothly with no obvious drag and the strike indicator/baited hook took a perfect line down the middle current seam. He was catching trout that because of the shoreline brush and water depth/ current away from the shore nobody else was able to touch. It was beautiful, but when he told me the price of the rig I thought "forget it," i don't need stockies that badly. I could do the same thing with my spinning reel on my noodle rod. One could have easily replaced his bait with a nymph and had the same effect. I guess for my part I would need to have someone tell me the objection to the center pin technique when a nymph was in use other than as was said, a long, possibly inconsiderate drift on a crowded stream. Mind you, I have no say in this or input; I'm just here to say what I saw and read responses for my own education.

 

[Maurice]

tomitrout wrote:

But if a manufacturer made a clear fly line that looked like thick mono but behaved like a traditional fly line how would they interpret the rule?

Regardless of color, if it's continuous with the colored body of the fly line, ie no knots or loops, I think it's still fly line. If the clear tip section is knotted or looped onto the end of the colored body, then it might be considered part of the leader setup...

^^ This!

The rule was written to keep spin fishing out...tossing weighted flys with long pieces of Mono.

It is unnecessary to have a leader longer than 18'. Thats the rule. Why change it because some wizbang wants to use a centerpin.

Fly Fishing is the act of propelling the terminal tackle (weightless or otherwise) using the line as its vehicle of transfer. The leader is just to create a finer and less visible transition to the fly.

Anything else is not flyfishing.

New sign....Catch and Release Fly Fishing and Dirty Filthy Pinning Only


:-D

 

[shortrod2]

Cold wrote:
Totally different.

I understand the differences. But there are many similarities so not totally different. Both use flies. both use the weight at the end of the line to deliver the flies. both use the current move the flies to a feeding fish...

Why do we (the collective we, especially those who have pointed out that center pinning is not fly fishing) care what the rod and reel look like if the lure is a fly with a single hook?