Register now on PaFlyFish.com! Login
HOME FORUM BLOG PHOTOS LINKS


Sponsors

Browsing this Thread:   1 Anonymous Users



(1) 2 »


Morning Hatch??

Joined:
2013/2/16 16:06
From Bushkill
Posts: 66
Offline
I was fishing the Bushkill yesterday in the morning and there was a hatch i suspected going on because there were mayflies on the water. Im new to identifiny the different hatches and didnt think hatches occured in the morning. they were were mostly white the trout were feeding fiercly on them. What hatch occurs in the morning and what flies should i use, i tried a light cahil and a quill gordon and only got one response. Any suggestions on what to use

Posted on: 2013/6/3 7:50


Re: Morning Hatch??

Joined:
2006/9/11 11:30
Posts: 596
Offline
I would first say try to match the general size and shade (light or dark) as a start.

The white sounds funny - the morning mayfly hatch now is typically the large olives (cornutas) which are a size 14 olive mayfly. In the summer I see a lot of white midges. Maybe a little yellow stone? Did they look white from a distance or did you get close to one? Sometimes the wings flapping make a fly seem light colored from a distance because you are mostly seeing the wing of a flying insect. This happens a lot with caddis which look tan flying around but if you grab one they can have a very dark body. My final suggestion is a spinner. Often the spinner falls can hold off to the morning or the fish are still picking up the ones that fell in the night and many of the mayfly spinners now are light colored. Were the fish gently sipping the bugs instead of smashing them? A sign they are on the spinners. Also, look straight down on the water. When spinners are laying flat on the water they can be hard to see at a distance and are easier to see straight down.

I guess you had to be there, but these are a few thoughts to consider.

Posted on: 2013/6/3 9:40


Re: Morning Hatch??

Joined:
2013/2/16 16:06
From Bushkill
Posts: 66
Offline
what is the difference between a spinner and a regular dry fly. even tried a bwo emerger in size 14.

Posted on: 2013/6/3 10:08


Re: Morning Hatch??

Joined:
2011/4/12 17:23
From Lancaster Co.
Posts: 1219
Offline
Spinner is the adult mayfly that returns to the water sometime after it hatched to deposit eggs. usuualy a spinner fall will take place close to dark.

I was fishing a warm water stream yesterday from roughly noon to 3:00pm. With the cloud cover and sporadic rain there were mayflies coming off occasionally the entire time I was there.

I'm guessing conditions were similar where you were and they were probably a sulphur or cahill. You just may not have had a pattern the fish liked. Perhaps your cahill was too big or the fish might have prefered a low riding comparadun or emerger pattern.

If you're seeing a light colored mayfly come off, you simply need to be prepared with light colored patterns in the right size. Or maybe try to pound them into submission with a parachute Adams.

Posted on: 2013/6/3 10:16
_________________
"You might be a big fish, in a little pond. Doesn't mean you've won, cause a long may come, a bigger one."


Re: Morning Hatch??

Joined:
2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
Posts: 13701
Offline
Mayflies have many life stages.

1. Nymph - depending on species/family, these can be clingers, crawlers, swimmers, or burrowers, in various sizes. Which type they are determines what part of streams they inhabit, and their habits. When ready to hatch, they all have different "practices" as well. Some transform to adults (duns) on the bottom and "fly" through the water to the surface. Some swim to the surface as nymphs and emerge from the shuck on top of the water. Some swim to shore or on rocks, and emerge there.

2. Dun - The initial adult is called a dun, due to the grayish blue color that is common in the wings. They float on the surface for a bit to dry their wings and then take to the air. How long they float on the surface depends on species, weather, amount of current, etc. The duns then fly to trees and sit under leaves for a while. How long depends on species and weather. Before....

3. Spinner - the duns again molt, this time into a spinner. The body coloration is different than the duns, and the wings are generally transparant. This is the mating stage. The spinners of a species coordinate their flights and all go at once, forming swarms above the stream (often over riffles). This is when they do the "mayfly" dance, and mate. At the conclusion, they all die. How the eggs are laid again varies with species, but in generalities all the bugs fall "spent" on the water, with wings flared straight out. "Spinner falls" are often very exciting, but sometimes short lived events, as masses of dead bugs are easy pickins and the fish really go nuts.

"Dry fly" is a catch-all term for any fly that floats. In mayflies, it includes emergers, duns, spinners, etc. We even sometimes float a nymph pattern! And of course there are "dry" imitations for caddis and stonefly species as well, not to mention terrestrials (ants, beetles, hoppers, etc.).

Timing is highly variable depending on species. "Typical" timing for many mayflies of May/June would be afternoon/evening emergence and a spinner fall right at dusk, sometimes after dark. There are exceptions. The Baetis variety of BWO's, for instance, of March hatch around midday or early afternoon. Tricos (July-September) hatch overnight and the spinner fall is in the morning. In June, some blue quills hatch in the morning and have spinner falls in morning/early afternoon. That's just a few examples. Also, weather conditions can vastly alter hatches and spinner falls, so that they happen at times when they're not "supposed" to.

Posted on: 2013/6/3 10:22


Re: Morning Hatch??

Joined:
2013/2/16 16:06
From Bushkill
Posts: 66
Offline
im begining to realize i need to carry different sizes of each fly. a comparadun will ride lower in the water i didnt know that. still learning this game, but theres nothing like feeling of a trout on a fly rod. so many choices time to get a bigger fly box.

Posted on: 2013/6/3 10:25


Re: Morning Hatch??

Joined:
2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
Posts: 13701
Offline
To be honest, if you want to just catch fish without a billion flies, forget about getting a different pattern for cahill, quill gordon, sulfur, etc.

The main difference between species is color and size. Size matters, color USUALLY not as much. The Adams was a great invention. It's not an actual type of bug, but rather a color used to imitate all of the above. You can easily get away with different sizes and patterns of Adams'. If you want to get more specific colors later, the Adams' is pretty dark, so do the same with a lighter colored fly. This whole thing about matching color perfectly is more because it's fun for us, not because it's necessary to catch fish!

Pheasant tails for the nymphs, Adams' for the adults. If you have that in the right size and pattern type, you can reasonably match any mayfly in PA.

But patterns, that is important. An emerger has most of the body UNDER the water, with just the wing protruding above the surface. A dun sits high and dry, with legs and tail touching, and the wings upright. They are fairly active too, so being able to skate it around a little helps. A spinner is full body in the surface film, and wings splayed directly to the sides.

As long as you know what you're trying to do, you can make various patterns do what you want. For instance, a parachute is kind of a jack of all trades, master of none. Wings are upright like a dun, but the body is in the water. If the fish aren't overly picky, by varying floatant and such you can make this do everything. Or some do a catskill tie. It's a dun pattern, but you can trim the top and bottom and make it a spinner!!!

So you can get as exact as you want, and will eventually, because it's fun. But you can get away with only 2 patterns for mayflies. A pheasant tail for the nymph, and a parachute adams for emergers, duns, and spinners. Play with floatants and stuff to make those do what you want them to.

Posted on: 2013/6/3 10:44


Re: Morning Hatch??

Joined:
2013/2/16 16:06
From Bushkill
Posts: 66
Offline
thanks pcray that helped simplify things. i do do well with pheasant tails. i just want to get more fish on the top, nothing like seeing trout take a fly on top

Posted on: 2013/6/3 10:59


Re: Morning Hatch??

Joined:
2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
Posts: 13701
Offline
What happened to you on the Bushkill could have been any number of things, and none of us know for sure because we weren't there. But lots of experiences like that is how you learn. It happens to the best of us, and this sport wouldn't be fun if it didn't.

If fly related, perhaps your fly was too big, or too small. That often matters. Perhaps it wasn't in the right part of the water column, like perhaps they were taking emergers and you were fishing your fly like a dun.

Perhaps more likely the fly was fine, and it was presentation related. Beginners to the dry fly game often struggle with drag. Also, accuracy, as often a fish works only a small current seam, and you have to be deadly accurate. And sometimes they key on movement, you'll see fly after fly float over top, but then one is struggling and tumbling, and that one gets smacked. That's when a bit of a skate helps (and high floatin flies do this better). Skate a few inches, dead drift, skate, etc. This is an art. You only get degrees of better, you never truly master it.

Posted on: 2013/6/3 11:59


Re: Morning Hatch??

Joined:
2006/9/11 11:30
Posts: 596
Offline
I'll complicate it, but not by much. For the April hatches the bugs are mostly dark bodied and a properly sized Adams does well. In late season most of the bugs are lighter colored, so adding a light Cahill pattern doesn't hurt.

A few years ago I restricted my late season patterns to a tan sparkle dun and a parachute light Cahill in sizes 12 through 16. I didn't notice any difference in the numbers of fish I caught. This year I'm on a snowshoe hare foot kick. For the early hatches I only used muskrat fur dubbing (like an Adams) and did fine. Now I added cream or yellow bodied flies to the mix. Seems to work for me.

I'll go on my usual rant. The biggest problem I see is that you need to get a dry fly right over a fish, not sort of close. A top guide I know claims you need to be in a 6" lane (+/- 3"). Therefore, you need to watch carefully to mark where a fish rises and try to hit it. Look for unique rocks, tree branches, foam lines; anything to mark just where a fish is. Don't just start flinging flies in the general direction, wait and watch first. Then hit it. One cheat is to cast too far about 3 feet above the fish. Then pull the fly to the right line and drop the rod to give it some slack. Feed the fly to the fish and wait for the strike. Expect the fish to hit and be ready.

Posted on: 2013/6/3 12:06


Re: Morning Hatch??

Joined:
2013/5/28 14:36
From Carbon County
Posts: 204
Offline
I was on the bushkill last Thursday night and I did see a lot of those white midges that jeffk mentioned there was also sulphurs still around here and there but nothing I would call a hatch. They midges are white bodied with a pale yellow head and I believe the trout were feeding on them. I didn't have anything to match the midges but I did get two in the last 10 minutes before it was to dark on a size 20 tan-ish sulphur. Oh yeah but this was in the park that is upstream from bush kill park can't think of the name right now.

Posted on: 2013/6/3 22:05


Re: Morning Hatch??

Joined:
2013/1/15 15:53
From Manheim PA
Posts: 2
Offline
This has been a very helpful thread. One thing i have struggled with is tracking small dry flies through the water. How can I know if I am within the 6" window if i cant see my fly on the water? especially when using midges around dusk. Any tips on this or just guess and check if i see a fish hit the surface where i think my fly is?

Posted on: 2013/6/5 8:47


Re: Morning Hatch??

Joined:
2011/7/6 12:30
From Ephrata, PA
Posts: 6591
Offline
Your screen name is the solution! Use 2 flies. Put a fly on that you can see (EHC or something) and drop the midge off behind it.

Posted on: 2013/6/5 9:47


Re: Morning Hatch??

Joined:
2013/1/15 15:53
From Manheim PA
Posts: 2
Offline
brilliant! using a ECH or other large fly when they are not coming off wont scare off other fish will it?

Posted on: 2013/6/5 13:52


Re: Morning Hatch??

Joined:
2011/7/6 12:30
From Ephrata, PA
Posts: 6591
Offline
I've never had an issue with it. Heck, I've gotten lucky sometimes and caught them on the caddis themselves, even when there "isn't" a hatch (caddis are everywhere, it seems, and there are usually some flying around somewhere). I often do this for tricos. If it concerns you though, try a size 18 griffith gnat (a midge that you can actually see) and trail your smaller midge behind it. I often do that when fishing zebra midges.

Posted on: 2013/6/5 14:03



(1) 2 »



You can view topic.
You cannot start a new topic.
You cannot reply to posts.
You cannot edit your posts.
You cannot delete your posts.
You cannot add new polls.
You cannot vote in polls.
You cannot attach files to posts.
You cannot post without approval.

[Advanced Search]





Site Content
Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
Stay Connected

twitterfeed.com facebook instagram RSS Feed

Sponsors
Polls





Copyright 2014 by PaFlyFish.com | Privacy Policy| Provided by Kile Media Group | Design by 7dana.com