Register now on PaFlyFish.com! Login
HOME FORUM BLOG PHOTOS LINKS


Sponsors

Browsing this Thread:   1 Anonymous Users



« 1 (2) 3 4 5 ... 17 »


Re: Little J No More

Joined:
2006/11/2 8:50
Posts: 6360
Offline
What alternative are you suggesting for the Little J? That would both allow for some harvest and maintain a good population, including the larger ones?

The problem with the trophy regs was that fish 14 inches and up were getting cropped off. That's why it was changed to C&R.

So, what is the alternative? What would work? It's not easy. Even if you pick a low number, like 2 fish per day, 8 guys taking 2 fish apiece equals 16 fish. The result would be the same as 2 guys taking 8 fish apiece, the total is 16 fish in both cases.

It's all about populations. It's best to leave the philosophy out of it. It would be nice to catch some and eat them. If that can be done and still maintain the populations, then great, I'm for it. But the populations come first. We should not accept mediocre fishing over populations that have knocked down way below the potential of the streams and rivers.

I don't think we've come up with a way that allows limited harvest but keeps it limited enough that the populations are really protected. There are too many anglers and trout are easy to catch. The populations are very vulnerable to over-harvest.

This is why C&R regs are so prevalent in places like Yellowstone Park. C&R works to maintain populations. If there is a better alternative, let's hear it.

Posted on: 2007/5/10 9:28


Re: Little J No More
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/9 9:29
From Monessen, PA
Posts: 22472
Offline
I don't harvest and really couldn't care less that others do if they are eating what they kill. That said, if you decide not to fish the Little J because of harvest restrictions on a particular section, I have to say the regulations are working as planned.

Posted on: 2007/5/10 9:31
_________________
Nietzsche was stupid and abnormal.

-- Leo Tolstoy


Re: Little J No More
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/9 9:29
From Monessen, PA
Posts: 22472
Offline
"We should not accept mediocre fishing over populations that have knocked down way below the potential of the streams and rivers. "

and continuing the thought:

"rather, anglers that like to harvest their catch should accept a complete ban on their recreational enjoyment so that "sport only" anglers can have more and bigger fish to catch."

Posted on: 2007/5/10 9:36
_________________
Nietzsche was stupid and abnormal.

-- Leo Tolstoy


Re: Little J No More

Joined:
2006/12/13 9:28
From Other side of the tracks
Posts: 19011
Offline
Quote:

afishinado wrote:
Matt Boyer wrote – “Fishing is fishing. It's not a video game. It is a means of subsistence that we have kinda turned into a sport…..”

I fished Hays Creek this past weekend, and I watched an Amish family pull up along the stream in their horse and buggy. I went along with my fishing. When I returned, I saw that the young Amish men had a several fish on their rope stringer, most of which were wild fish. Hay has been fished hard since the stocking, and stocked fish are few and far between.

When I saw the fish, I began thinking that the father, grandfather, great-grandfather and many generations before of these young Amish men must have pulled up in their horse and fished these waters to catch tonight’s dinner. No freezer burn for these fish – the Amish waste nothing (and they don’t have freezers).

I had an exchange with Mike from the PFBC about a setting aside a special regulation area at Hay Creek. I realize that there are many points of view to consider by the PFBC about special regulations on PA waters.

I was glad to see that they will eat well tonight.


If you count using fish for fertilizer, then I agree that they don't waste anything.

Don't get me started on Amish fishing and hunting practices!!!!

I find that the vast majority of people who glorify the Amish lifestyle never lived near them or owned property near them.

Just so you know ... Many of them do have freezers. They just don't have them in the house. They also have boats and motors, and cottages on the lake with electricity... They just don't hook to the public utilities. Maybe their rules are less strict in Western PA and Ohio. Then again, maybe not.

Posted on: 2007/5/10 9:44
_________________
There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance." -Henry David Thoreau--


Re: Little J No More

Joined:
2006/9/9 17:18
From lancaster county
Posts: 6489
Offline
yep taters feel pain
yes jack they should. im tired of people thinking that it is so darn important to harvest trout. its ridiculous. you mean to tell me that people cant have fun fishing unless they kill a trout? then why not allow netting or snagging them. ah, because that wouldnt be sporting and would have no recreational value. or would it? i mean if killing trout means recreation then why not
its because of sport only anglers that fight so dang hard to help trout ...that the big fish are there to catch! not because of harvesters who fight so dang hard to keep fish. if they keep them all there wont be any to catch....bottom line.

Posted on: 2007/5/10 9:49
_________________
http://cvtu.homestead.com/





Re: Little J No More

Joined:
2007/5/10 0:41
Posts: 20
Offline
Quote:

troutbert wrote:
What alternative are you suggesting for the Little J? That would both allow for some harvest and maintain a good population, including the larger ones?


That's a good question, and I don't really have a suggestion. It's true that the trophy regs were a problem. For a while, you could catch all the 11 or 12 inchers you wanted, but you hardly saw anything bigger. From a conservation point of view, the basic issue is too much pressure and there is probably no other way but CR to resolve that.

I don't really have an agenda for the river, CR is probably the best solution, but it has changed it for me. I should point out, too, that I didn't suggest 'culling' for the good of the fish population. My point is just a vague, poorly articulated sense that something important is lost when the blood is completely removed from the sport.

I used to fish some private water on Spruce a few years ago. There were some honking fish in it and it was fun ... for a while. But it was kind of weird, too. Many of the fish had been caught and released so many times they didn't even act like real fish anymore. I remember slipping and falling in a small pool and then not 5 minutes later hooking a 22 inch rainbow barely a rod length away from me. A truly wild fish would have been in the next county so it was hard to be too proud about it.

As someone pointed out, I'm just leaving room for the rest of you guys :) And it's been good, too, to get onto some new water and really learn it.

Posted on: 2007/5/10 9:51


Re: Little J No More

Joined:
2006/12/13 9:28
From Other side of the tracks
Posts: 19011
Offline
Quote:

salvelinusfontinalis wrote:
yep taters feel pain
yes jack they should. im tired of people thinking that it is so darn important to harvest trout. its ridiculous. you mean to tell me that people cant have fun fishing unless they kill a trout? then why not allow netting or snagging them. ah, because that wouldnt be sporting and would have no recreational value. or would it? i mean if killing trout means recreation then why not
its because of sport only anglers that fight so dang hard to help trout ...that the big fish are there to catch! not because of harvesters who fight so dang hard to keep fish. if they keep them all there wont be any to catch....bottom line.


Wow!!! Although I agree with what you are saying, I think it is preaching to the choir. Even the first guy said he rarely keeps trout.

Now the Amish on the other hand... To them, C&R is a waste of time. They keep everything they catch, and what they don't eat becomes fertilizer. Somebody needs to convince them that carp are good eating.

Posted on: 2007/5/10 9:59
_________________
There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance." -Henry David Thoreau--


Re: Little J No More
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/9 9:29
From Monessen, PA
Posts: 22472
Offline
And the honesty was refreshing. I thought I was going to have to argue to get the admissions that were "between the lines."

Posted on: 2007/5/10 10:02
_________________
Nietzsche was stupid and abnormal.

-- Leo Tolstoy


Re: Little J No More

Joined:
2006/9/9 17:18
From lancaster county
Posts: 6489
Offline
Quote:
I remember slipping and falling in a small pool and then not 5 minutes later hooking a 22 inch rainbow barely a rod length away from me. A truly wild fish would have been in the next county so it was hard to be too proud about it.

and if people would be allowed to keep it...it would have been it the next county in a frying pan
thanks farmer dave and jack i think that might be the first time anyone ever said they agree with me without a pm =)

Posted on: 2007/5/10 10:04
_________________
http://cvtu.homestead.com/





Re: Little J No More

Joined:
2006/9/14 10:34
From Southeast PA
Posts: 521
Offline
Quote:

trubski wrote:
I used to fish some private water on Spruce a few years ago. There were some honking fish in it and it was fun ... for a while. But it was kind of weird, too. Many of the fish had been caught and released so many times they didn't even act like real fish anymore. I remember slipping and falling in a small pool and then not 5 minutes later hooking a 22 inch rainbow barely a rod length away from me. A truly wild fish would have been in the next county so it was hard to be too proud about it.

Now THAT I can understand. I don't know what the answer to that issue is. The SRC type of water is pretty ridiculous, but I understand that you fear this can happen on other popular C&R water. I guess as long as the fish populations are high enough to overcome the fishing population, at least the same fish won't be getting caught 3 time a day. But the problem is the fishing population, not the C&R regulations. If there are that many fishermen and no C&R regs, you either won't have many fish to catch (if a lot are being kept), or they will be "tame" (if a lot are being released). The fish on Spring Creek are still a lot fun to fish for, in my opinion, even though they are heavily fished. I think it's because there are enough of them that they aren't caught too repetitively.

Posted on: 2007/5/10 10:12
_________________
"It ain't the meat, it's the motion"


Re: Little J No More

Joined:
2007/1/31 20:39
Posts: 194
Offline
First, in terms of taking away C&R reg areas: I don't mind the principal of harvesting wild trout. However, if you closed off all special regs which promote catch and release, almost all the fish in those areas would be dead in a year. The reason why they are C&R is because they are in heavily fished areas, and the PFBC would like to have at least some permanant wild/holdover population in that area.

The fact is, im sure that the people who harvest on this board do it fairly infrequently, and when they do, they are responsible, and have no intentions on making a dent in the wild trout population. However, all of you seem to be fairly intellegant people. For every one of you, there are 50 other a**holes who, given the opportunity to harvest, will exploit any opportunity they have to take every fish out of the stream. Humans are very fallable when it comes to preserving their natural environment.

Don't beleive me? Look what we did to the Buffalo, look at how we almost destroyed Pennsylvania streams with pollution, look at how colonists caused the erradication of several North East U.S. predators, which is causing whitetail overpopulation spread across almost every East coast state. Look even at opening weekend, you have 15 spinner/bait fisherman hovering over a hole where stock truck tracks are still fresh. If you took away all special regs that limited the harvest of trout, I am sure many of you would be responsible about it, but MANY MANY more people would exploit the chance to harvest wild trout in plentiful, and heavily fished waters.

Second, there is the issue with C&R killing fish because people don't know how to play/handle them right. I agree that a lot of people do not know how to handle/play trout, and unfortulately, it results in their deaths. However, even with the 5-10% mortality rate of catch and release, its still much much better than 100% of harvesting....So I say we keep the C&R areas. It may not be ideal, but you have to think of the big picture, and that is: with the increasing amount of anglers, and basic human nature, you will need to put up with some non-ideal methods to preserve fish.

Posted on: 2007/5/10 11:00


Re: Little J No More

Joined:
2006/9/9 17:18
From lancaster county
Posts: 6489
Offline
thedude,

id like to see a bigger picture of that fish you are holding. looks like a big wild brown with a huge mouth. am i right?

Posted on: 2007/5/10 11:19
_________________
http://cvtu.homestead.com/





Re: Little J No More

Joined:
2007/1/31 20:39
Posts: 194
Offline
It's a Wild Brown from the Davidson in North Carolina. Got him on a #20 micro egg. Your right about the big mouth, it was a large male so the bottom jaw was huge. I'll send you a PM of the real pic when I get home tonight.

Posted on: 2007/5/10 11:28


Re: Little J No More

Joined:
2006/9/11 15:10
From collegeville, pa
Posts: 680
Offline
20fish/30years = .67 fish/year
seems like a drop in the ocean if you ask me, by your logic you should be taking more! when people talk about limits and how many fish per angler are taken i think that may be extreme...if i caught 6-8 fish everytime out i'd be ecstatic...just my 2cents.

jeff

Posted on: 2007/5/10 11:36


Re: Little J No More

Joined:
2006/9/9 17:18
From lancaster county
Posts: 6489
Offline
thanks dude...i figured he was wild! nice catch. ya please send me the pic i always wondered everytime i saw your avatar what the magnificant fish must look like.

Posted on: 2007/5/10 12:01
_________________
http://cvtu.homestead.com/






« 1 (2) 3 4 5 ... 17 »



You can view topic.
You cannot start a new topic.
You cannot reply to posts.
You cannot edit your posts.
You cannot delete your posts.
You cannot add new polls.
You cannot vote in polls.
You cannot attach files to posts.
You cannot post without approval.

[Advanced Search]





Site Content
Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
Stay Connected

twitterfeed.com facebook instagram RSS Feed

Sponsors
Polls
Goal during a day on the water....
Catching a single fish makes me happy 19% (18)
I want to catch every fish in the stream 4% (4)
50 dinks is a dream day 2% (2)
Only want to catch big fish 9% (9)
Catching the toughest fish in the steam is my goal 4% (4)
Beautiful place, hit the hatch and whatever happens, happens 29% (28)
Who cares? It beats work. 30% (29)
_PL_TOTALVOTES
The poll closed at 2014/11/27 22:13
Comments?





Copyright 2014 by PaFlyFish.com | Privacy Policy| Provided by Kile Media Group | Design by 7dana.com