Kelly's run/Holtwood park closure

[HopBack]

Kellys run closed in Lancaster county


Another huge chunk of land closed in Lancaster county. Does anyone know how extensive the Talen energy purchase was and if they plan on closing other lands or parks? PPL owned a lot of land on both the York and Lancaster county sides that they made available to the public for fishing, hunting, hiking and recreation. It would be a huge blow if they closed it all.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

I'm trying to figure how land taken from the public for energy production is allowed to be kept after it is no longer used for energy production.

Should revert back to the public.

Look at talens Facebook page. It's a PR nightmare for them.

 

[foxtrapper1972]

Sal- I wonder the same. Land has been closed in the past year around Safe Harbor. It was open to the public for my entire life. Safe Harbor Village was sold to a group called Safe Harbor Partners who immediately shut down all lands attached to the village. Also MILES of land from Safe Harbor to Shenks Ferry now has been closed. I've heard rumors of even more areas to be shut down. Apparently the people running this new company are a real bunch of bastards. I was just "trespassing" last evening and I plan to continue doing so.

 

[foxtrapper1972]

This company Talens or Brookfield are also screwing with the water levels like I've never seen in my life. Up and down constantly. Apparently it's ALL about $$$$$$$$$$. To hell with the environment. To hell with the public. We are just supposed to be consumers and workers so these bastards can get filthy rich. Sickening #censor#.

 

[foxtrapper1972]

Between Norfolk Southern and Brookfield Energy and the waste management people atCresswell Landfill we could lose a LOT of access (already have ). Depending on Lancaster County Conservancy to be the only way to safeguard our wild areas won't leave much. You start seeing a pattern with these companies...They GAVE us the crappy rail trail (it was already there and open to the public by the way) and then IMMEDIATELy took a hell of a lot away.

Will guess they will slowly withdraw these public lands by posting them and then start parceling them up and selling them for development.

 

[franklin]

salvelinusfontinalis wrote:
I'm trying to figure how land taken from the public for energy production is allowed to be kept after it is no longer used for energy production.

Should revert back to the public.

Look at talens Facebook page. It's a PR nightmare for them.

Tax the land as commercial property now since that is what it seems to have become.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Sal- I wonder the same. Land has been closed in the past year around Safe Harbor. It was open to the public for my entire life. Safe Harbor Village was sold to a group called Safe Harbor Partners who immediately shut down all lands attached to the village. Also MILES of land from Safe Harbor to Shenks Ferry now has been closed. I've heard rumors of even more areas to be shut down. Apparently the people running this new company are a real bunch of bastards. I was just "trespassing" last evening and I plan to continue doing so.

Your not the only one. It seems a vast majority of people who used that area plan on continuing to do so. I have never been an advocate of trespassing but it's starting to get ridiculous down here.
Between the pipeline and now this, these energy companies are making a ton of enemies.

Some of our most sensitive lands and recreational in the county should NEVER have been sold or given to corporations.

 

[slay12345]

I feel that the townships or even counties will step in eventually with all the uproar. I read Ad's article in LNP as more of a temporary threat similar to what PGC said about closing down Middlecreek. If they close it now, they will transfer rights to the township so they do not have to deal with maintenance or liability. I'm sure there will be a much longer story to this...

 

[salmonoid]

foxtrapper1972 wrote:
Sal- I wonder the same. Land has been closed in the past year around Safe Harbor. It was open to the public for my entire life. Safe Harbor Village was sold to a group called Safe Harbor Partners who immediately shut down all lands attached to the village. Also MILES of land from Safe Harbor to Shenks Ferry now has been closed. I've heard rumors of even more areas to be shut down. Apparently the people running this new company are a real bunch of bastards. I was just "trespassing" last evening and I plan to continue doing so.

It's less than 2 miles from Safe Harbor to Shenks Ferry.. Just sayin..

Whether you like private property or not, if you deliberately trespass, you give anglers a bad name. And whether privately held property has been open for hundreds of years but tomorrow becomes posted by a private landowner, that is the private landowners prerogative. So in terms of property rights, there's nothing to see here. Talen can do what it wants. Safe Harbor Partners can do what it wants (but I'm glad I got to explore the quarry back there before it changed ownership hands).

From what I can see, the land that Brookfield holds is mostly buffering land that was already posted (i.e. the stuff right around the dams and it was closed when PPL owned it). So I'm not sure what land you are referring to that is lost because of Brookfield.

From a PR perspective, it's a complete boneheaded move for Talen. Their argument is weak and sounds like some overly risk-adverse attorney turned marketing spokesperson crafted it (but that's not to say that there isn't some risk for them to open Holtwood Park to the public). The Conestoga Trail is maintained by volunteers, and probably the ball diamond in the park, if it is used by a Little League team, is maintained by the parents and coaches of the kids. There's a couple of pavilions, maybe a swing set, some Porta-Potties, and maybe a bathroom. Maintenance of the whole shebang probably costs as much as the bottled water served at a catered luncheon at a Talen shareholders' meeting.

I'd have no problems with Lancaster County Conservancy buying the woodland, but I think they should steer clear of holding parkland (pavilions, bathrooms, playgrounds), as that is a bit of mission creep. Lancaster County or Martic Township could be logical holders of the parkland proper.

 

[foxtrapper1972]

In the case of Safe Harbor Village there were many acres of land attached to it that were previously open to the public. It was owned by the power company. It was sold to private developers who have now posted it and timbered the land and are putting in roads. It was one of the prettiest spots in the county and contained many fragile plants etc. including wild orchids.

The interesting question Sal is asking concerns how these lands were initially acquired. Likely through eminent domain....Not to mention whatever agreements on paper or not were made to keep these areas open to public in exchange.


Shenks Ferry Wildflower area will likely be on their hit list as well. Additionally Conestoga and Manor Township have closed acres of land along the rail trail to hunting and fishing with signs saying STAY ON THE TRAIL and NO FISHING. They've also erected MILES of chain link fence along the rail trail that spoils the view and keeps people from accessing the Susquehanna River.

Lancaster County is really losing it folks!

Article here focuses on Kellys Run but there has been MUCH more of their land posted or sold to private people in past year.

http://lancasteronline.com/news/local/energy-company-abruptly-closes-park-land-long-used-by-public/article_1cac9850-0ca5-11e6-940c-9f398d975816.html

 

[foxtrapper1972]

"It's less than 2 miles from Safe Harbor to Shenks Ferry.. Just sayin.."

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If you think it is a small area you are mistaken. Come walk it with me. Seriously. Open invitation to anyone who would like to view any of the areas in question.

 

[salmonoid]

Just to be clear about the land ownership:

PPL originally owned Holtwood Dam - it is a hydro project, and also burns coal, which they recently expanded. PPL owned much of the land in the lower Susquehanna Valley and offered a big chunk of that in recent years to the Lancaster County Conservancy, which bought much of it. Recently, PPL spun off Talen, to divest their production facilities from their distribution. Talen had too much production capacity, so they had to dump some of the generating projects, which included Holtwood. Brookfield bought Holtwood Dam, but only the land immediately surrounding the dam.

Generally, part of the renewal agreement for power plants is that they maintain land for public use. So PPL did that. Talen did that when they owned Holtwood, but when they sold the dam to Brookfield, they no longer had a plant, and therefore, they no longer have a requirement to keep their lands adjacent to Brookfield's holding open to the public.

But there are much wiser ways to handle this situation. Instead of abruptly closing than that had been opened and used by the public, work with local officials to see if anyone is willing to take over the land. Talen and the public end up in a win-win situation - Talen reduces their risk and is able to gracefully exit the land ownership business, and the public retains access.

 

[salmonoid]

foxtrapper1972 wrote:


"It's less than 2 miles from Safe Harbor to Shenks Ferry.. Just sayin.."

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Come walk it with me. Seriously. Open invitation to anyone who would like to view any of the areas in question.

I was just pointing out that you said MILES of land have been closed, as if huge swathes of open-to-public land has been lost. Shenks Ferry is owned by the Conservancy, Conestoga Township owns the swath adjacent to the river, a bunch of the land is power-line (owned by PPL) and there is much private land in between Safe Harbor and Shenks Ferry already. The woods around the Village are all that I'm aware of that have been lost to public access.

I cringed when I saw the Posted signs go up around the quarry and on the other side of River Road, along with the prep work for development. Even the pavilion rental at the Safe Harbor park has shifted from SHWPC to some estate management service. I'm well aware of the situation, as it is practically in my back yard, and I've walked most of the land that was formerly owned by SHWPC.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Well you guys fell right in line. Fox sky is falling and Kevin meh no big deal.

It's worse than you think. Fox is a little closer to the truth I think. Having lived here 38 years a ton of land has been lost down there and ppl/talen holdings in that area are extensive. The public has always assumed those lands would be open forever but now we can see that isn't the case. So what's next you have to ask?

But there are much wiser ways to handle this situation. Instead of abruptly closing than that had been opened and used by the public, work with local officials to see if anyone is willing to take over the land. Talen and the public end up in a win-win situation - Talen reduces their risk and is able to gracefully exit the land ownership business, and the public retains access.

Yes an no.

Obviously what you say makes sense so why didn't they do that? It really begs to question what is the motive then ?

http://wnep.com/2015/05/12/preserving-the-montour-preserve/

Ta da!
For a company that seems to hold on to the fact that they are a energy company and not in the maintaining parks business ( a quote from Thier Facebook page, seems they are charging a lot to maintain another park.
Bet ya a dollar we get offered the same deal to maintain the trails.

In all honesty liability goes up when you post. While I'm sure fox will own his trespassing I won't do it but still....

I hope people go down there, hurt themselves and sue the pants off of them.

 

[bikerfish]

Just wait till the greedy repubs out west get thier way with the public lands, whick they are working very hard to do. It will simply go to the highest bidder for whatever extraction industry pays up, and the public will lose all rights to it. Its one thing to allow selected timbering, grazing and such, but to simply sell off lands that have been public for a hundred years, is simple corporate greed.

 

[Bamboozle]

I think the whole power company land posting thing is based on legitimate security concerns and the ever present scourge of liability. Unfortunately it will be the way of the future.

Recently a large parcel of land in Southern Lehigh County in Lower Milford Township was posted by I believe Met-Ed, eliminating access to portions of Indian Creek and a Class A UNT to the Hosensack. I was none too happy about that as it was fun fishing a few minutes from home.

Something even more depressing to me was the closure many years ago of Springton Reservoir in Delaware County to fishing by Aqua. That bothers me even more because I grew up fishing there and Aqua is totally inconstant in their application of NO TRESPASSING rules.

While I don't like it, I could deal it it better if it was really about security and not because some well heeled schmo is trying to keep the hoi polloi out.

 

[HopBack]

Talen Energy does not own the holtwood dam and generation site anymore so it can't be about security. We are not talking about lands immediately surrounding a power-plant. Denying access in these situations is quite understandable and necessary. The holtwood park closure cut's off access to some 10+ miles of trails on Kellys run preserve.

If they are doing this here, you can bet they will do the same to all the other properties. Take a look at the GIS. PPL owned a lot of land in southern Lancaster county and York county that is now transferred to Talen energy.

 

[foxtrapper1972]

salmonid- I do not know who owns the land off Green Hill Rd. That area was I assumed also power company land and had been open to hunting, hiking etc. as long as I can remember until last year. The gates and signs are identical to ones on other Brookfield/PPL/Talens held lands. Areas around Observation Rd are also in jeopardy even though some is owned by Conservancy there are other portions owned by power company. It's not just loss of their land to public but the way they can cut off access to other open ground. That is a load of lost area. The power lines near Safe Harbor and around Shenks Ferry were also only recently posted.

In addition Conestoga Twp does not allow hunting on it's portion of the rail trail (but probably has no clue what portion of surrounding lands they own). (They hang NO HUNTING signs willy nilly.) They've effectively cut off access to MILES of unposted land.

Lancaster County Conservancy is not necessarily reliable when it comes to hunting rights. They've shut down gun hunting on a number of properties that had been previously open.

All in all a HUGE loss. It's pretty damn sad. Yep I'll trespass alright...with a clear conscience.

 

[RyanR]

Talen Energy is not at all a friendly company regarding any public access and from their beginning has aggressively moved to immediately end all public access on any lands they now own, including the many that were previously open to public access by PPL (which had a strong reputation of supporting & even encouraging public access on their lands.) The Holtwood Park area closure is just the latest example but this started well before that.

 

[sarce]

I'll join in the public outcry if an organized effort gets going. Despite rarely being able to visit that area, those streams and trails are some of my favorites in PA.