Is Pickering Creek Navigable?

C

chuckytown

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May 16, 2009
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Does anyone know if it is? Recently a landowner posted both sides of my favorite spot. I can wade there on the water, but only legally if said creek is deemed navigable. Maybe some of you know the area below Merlin Road; it's closed. I probably can't float a canoe full of furs down the creek...
 
I couldn't give you an answer on that question but the U. S. Army Corps of Engineers is over the waterways.

http://www.usace.army.mil/Pages/default.aspx
 
Don't think it's ever been "declared" navigable by a legislature, like the ones on this list:

link

That said, the declarations are not the final say, a judge is. Pretty sure Pickering has never been tested in court, so its up in the air like 95% of PA's streams. A judge would look for a history of navigation.
 
Some of my neighbors Kayak it in high water. They have even kayaked Valley Creek when it is up. Not a good idea , but who am i to say.

The one woman says she puts in around the YMCA and takes out by the resivour- i don't know how or where she manages that.

Is ot navagable? sort of.
 
If it's posted they may have not even stocked said section. I'd contact the name on the poster and see what the deal is... you might even end up with the whole section to youself if you approach nicely.

The only place I've fished Pickering is the Delayed Harvest section and it'd be hard to imagine anyone floating it unless the stream is completely blown out...
 
So I've fished the Pickering primarily between above the bridge
where Pickering Road crosses it to below where it crosses the road again. I grew up there and know the holes from above the upper crossing downstream to the trestle bridge. The section I'm talking about flows from Merlin Road downstream to the next bridge. When I was in elementary and middle school I dammed the creek at several places to ride my bike into the water (sorry trout purists!), caught crayfish in the creek, and explored the whole thing. Since then, I've taken up fishing spots where there's no crowds and always trout. Heck, I used to hang out in the DHALO section before it was a park. So recently a landowner who owns both sides posted no trespassing because public access became a hassle and he's out of town a lot. It is where I've caught most trout on the creek (and some carp). I've used this guy's property legally for 20 + years. This year, since it's posted, the best spot is "off limits ". I've gotta go somewhere else, unless legally it is navigable. I'm talking about a half-mile of creek. BTW- during a flood, anything can get down the Pickering. One less spot to fish in PA. And this area holds stocked fish.
 
So according to the US army of engineers the creek is navigable if I can charge 1$ a pop to float inner tubes down it?
 
I called Army Corps of Engineers today to try to find out, but the recording said there was no one there at the time to the call, so I left my number and they never called back. not that I stayed here all day, but I checked my caller ID.
 
hows it going chuckytown,
Did you ever fish Birch Run, I have no idea what its like there now but I used to slip up there, it had trout in it that came up from French Creek, and a lot of big Fallfish.
 
Unless its owned by the Army Corps, I don't think they have any say in the matter. It's up to a court. To even make it to court, it has to be challenged, meaning someone has to cross the posted signs claiming navigability, and the landowner has to attempt to prosecute, and both sides have to hold their ground the whole way through a lengthy court battle.

Officially, if the stream is capable or has been capable for "commerce", in its natural condition, then its navigable. A judge will look for a history of "commerce", which is not simply running a kayak down it. A legislative declaration of public highway is looked highly upon, but I don't think that exists for the Pickering (at least I couldn't find one). I'm unsure how an inner tube business would be viewed. But if you could come up with historical evidence that Pickering was used to transport something or other for business purposes, and that at least one of these things did not require dredging, canals, or splash dams, then you may have a case.
 
There was a case on the Jackson River in VA a few years back, they claimed they owned the river because of the kings land grant stated that, and they won the case. I always thought we had a revalution over 200 years ago.
 
That said, an easement exists for navigation anywhere, doesn't have to be navigable. So long as you don't touch any rocks and don't fish you can always float through.
 
Pickering Creek is navigable right now!
 
Well I may not be able to fish there unless I catch the landowner at home. This landowner is seldom home. I talked to a guest who lives there, and he didn't think the landowner would let me. He had problems with "jerks". I'll look into history, too. You would definitely have to carry an inner tube at certain points.

 
A lot of knuckleheads out there so maybe there is a legit story behind it - your best bet is to check with the landowner in a responsible manner and see what's up.
 
As far as the Army Engineers go, I called them today in DC, got switch around to a couple diferent people then got switch to the philadelphia office, then got switched around there, then finaly I talked to a regulator, he said since the clean water act, they have jurristiction over all water ways, before it was only navigable waters. He said he didn't know anything about laws on posting land, ( He asked what I ment by Posting) he said you would have to check local laws. Thats typical of anywhere you call for information. The only government dept. that functions Properly is the IRS when they are collecting money.
 
Hey buffalo, thanks for the phone time et. Al... I'm going to keep checking regularly to see if this landowner's ever home. I hope he's alright with it because he's a local celebrity of some sort (a musician & a major actor's brother). I'm not sure about what the Army Corps can do, but I'll call the PFBC office for clarification. Birch Run? never heard of it. I'll post after.
 
Chucky, before you call, read this, it might be plenty clear enough.

http://www.fish.state.pa.us/water/public/faq_public_waters.htm

I dont' know how the Army Corps got into this, they have nothing whatsoever to do with it?
 
There were a number of mills on Pickering that dated back into the early 1700s. I wonder if they would have been considered navigable back then?
 
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