Register now on PaFlyFish.com! Login
HOME FORUM BLOG PHOTOS LINKS


Sponsors

Browsing this Thread:   1 Anonymous Users



« 1 ... 3 4 5 (6)


Re: How many hunters here?

Joined:
2006/12/13 9:28
From Other side of the tracks
Posts: 19011
Offline
By the way Jack, I think there are plenty of deer. However, one could argue that hunting does control the population and still complain that the game commission is reducing it too far. I may not agree with it, but it is sound reasoning.

Posted on: 2007/7/25 7:02
_________________
There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance." -Henry David Thoreau--


Re: How many hunters here?

Joined:
2006/9/10 21:53
From Greensburg, PA
Posts: 13629
Offline
I first hunted when I was 32 hunted for a few years and every three years or so still take my father in law's gun for a walk. But if someone asked my I'd say no I don;t hunt. Do I have anything negative to say about hunting? No.

Posted on: 2007/7/25 19:29


Re: How many hunters here?

Joined:
2006/10/26 23:01
From Ohio
Posts: 657
Offline
Review of some DVC abatement methods:

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ws/nwrc/symposia/economics/schwabeHR.pdf

Some "proof", a lot more conjecture....

All I'll say is that its trial by jury, it doesn't matter what the truth is only the perception of the truth. My suburbanite friends think I'm saving their flowers and cars when I hunt deer in the burbs, and that is all that really maters. This perception has caused several Cleveland area suburbs to open up to archery hunting again. I also produce something tangable from my hunting efforts....meat and sometimes a wall decoration. If I have to hear my mother in law tell me again she can't understand why I go fishing so often, yet don't bring home any fish for dinner.....I'll loose the rest of my hair.

If the ODNR says they are managing deer populations at 65-80% capacity, then I assume hunting has something to do with the other 20-35%.

Posted on: 2007/7/25 19:47


Re: How many hunters here?
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/9 19:16
From Dallastown, PA
Posts: 7117
Offline
Quote:

flyfishermanj wrote:
Maybe if there where less cars and the idiots that drive them on the road, there would be more deer?
JH


Precisely FFJ....you should be on the governors advisory council.

Posted on: 2007/7/26 0:51
_________________
Don't hit me with them negative waves so early in the morning. Think the bridge will be there and it will be there. It's a mother, beautiful bridge, and it's gonna be there. Ok?


Re: How many hunters here?

Joined:
2006/12/13 9:28
From Other side of the tracks
Posts: 19011
Offline
Just to clear something up, Jack.

Quote:

JackM wrote:

... I don't feel that anyone needs to justify hunting.


Changine the wording slightly, I would completely agree that we shouldn't have to justify hunting. We shouldn't have to justify fishing, either. However, hunters (and anglers) are being forced more and more to defend this sport. Hunting is definitely under attack. the attack may be small right now, but it has been slowly increasing over the years. Therefore, I can't find fault for anyone who defends the sport.

Here are a few things I think we can agree on.

1. Reducing the herd would indeed reduce the numbers of human/deer interactions including auto accidents.

2. A deer herd can be managed for larger herds. This is the argument that you presented earlier. and I would go so far to say that for a long time, that was the goal.

3. A deer herd can be managed for smaller numbers. This has been historically proven by the near exterpation of the herd. OK, there wasn't much management back then, but a management program could be inacted that would have the same results by drastically increasing harvest limits and allowing the sale of the meat. Take South Carolina for instance. Although you can't sell the meat, their deer seasons start in August, and run through much of winter. They have several seasons. In some seasons, dogs are permitted for hunting deer. This is a very effective method of hunting. Deer will make a circle when chased, just like a rabbit, only bigger. I can't prove this with a scientific study, but i assure you it is true. Some of the seasons, you can use semi-automatic weapons. I doubt that increases the number fo deer killed, but who knows. In most of the state, the limit is 2 per day and 10 for the year. In some areas it is 2 per day and unlimited for the year (other than limited by the nmber of days). That is the way it used to be as recently as the 90s and is probably still that way. Pennsylvania sells over a million licenses each year. Could you imagine what would happen to the herd in PA if such laws were inacted.

4. It is true that as the herd is reduced below capacity, reproduction rates go up, and "naural" mortality goes down (less die from health problems). However, there is a limit to how high they will go. They won't be crapping them out like puppies.

You had asked if the number of DV accidents can be reduced through hunting. To me, Can the number of deer be reduced from hunting is the same question. It is very clear that hunting can reduce the deer population if hunting is managed for that. All that has to be done is harvest more deer than can be reporduced. Once the herd is reduced, it can be maintained by keeping the total death rate about equal to the reproduction rate.

I feel that one does not have to be a deer biologist to come up with this. It is simple math. Take out more than you put in, and the result is less. You can prove that with a jar and a handful of marbles.

Posted on: 2007/7/26 5:44
_________________
There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance." -Henry David Thoreau--


Re: How many hunters here?

Joined:
2006/9/10 21:53
From Greensburg, PA
Posts: 13629
Offline
Quote:


Here are a few things I think we can agree on.

1. Reducing the herd would indeed reduce the numbers of human/deer interactions including auto accidents.


As someone who was hit by a deer on rt 30 2 weeks ago in Greensburg but struggled to find deer in Clinton county last weekend, I kind of disagree with that...Thin the herd where? In the state forest...NO!! In Developed area? Perhaps....the problem is NOT that the herd is large or is moving into our neighborhoods. The problem is that we keep moving into their neighborhood. Then they have to move. Where I was hit by the deer there is very little hunting available.

Posted on: 2007/7/26 12:47


Re: How many hunters here?
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/9 9:29
From Monessen, PA
Posts: 22470
Offline
Quote:

tomgamber wrote:

As someone who was hit by a deer....Where I was hit by the deer....


When I had my collision, it was I who hit the deer, but it cut right in front of me without yielding the right-of-way and withouot signaling its intentions all while ignoring a clearly visible Deer Crossing sign 100 yards up the road.

Posted on: 2007/7/26 12:56
_________________
Nietzsche was stupid and abnormal.

-- Leo Tolstoy


Re: How many hunters here?

Joined:
2006/12/13 9:28
From Other side of the tracks
Posts: 19011
Offline
Quote:

tomgamber wrote:
Quote:


Here are a few things I think we can agree on.

1. Reducing the herd would indeed reduce the numbers of human/deer interactions including auto accidents.


As someone who was hit by a deer on rt 30 2 weeks ago in Greensburg but struggled to find deer in Clinton county last weekend, I kind of disagree with that...Thin the herd where? In the state forest...NO!! In Developed area? Perhaps....the problem is NOT that the herd is large or is moving into our neighborhoods. The problem is that we keep moving into their neighborhood. Then they have to move. Where I was hit by the deer there is very little hunting available.


Tom, I covered that exception elsewhere. The game commission by their own admission said it is very difficult for them to control deer populations in Urban or suburban areas. It is up to the municipalities. And it certainly is not their fault that you moved to the deer's neighborhood.

I grew up in NWPA, and there were deer everywhere at the time. However, I never hit one with a car. Moved to Connecticut after college and bumped one with a car. Eventually moved back to NWPA for 6+ years. Never hit any. Eventually moved to the burbs over here in Ohio, and BOOM. Had one dance a jig on the roof of my T-Bird before it ran off and left dents on my right fender, hood, and roof. Hit another one a couple years ago with the same car, but that was the first one I hit in a rural area. I don't think that one ran off. Well, at least part of him didn't run off until it rained.

Posted on: 2007/7/26 13:09
_________________
There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance." -Henry David Thoreau--


Re: How many hunters here?

Joined:
2006/11/7 8:32
From South West FL
Posts: 260
Offline
Quote:

guttrap wrote:
Slumpbuster-

I've never seen a bigfoot but Capt Matt claims he has. I'd like to believe in it, I've just seen no proof thus far. Although I do trust Capt Matt's judgement, I'm just wondering if he possibly had a few too many cold one's that day.


Dont bring me or bigfoot into this.

Posted on: 2007/7/26 15:06


Re: How many hunters here?

Joined:
2006/12/13 9:28
From Other side of the tracks
Posts: 19011
Offline
Quote:

CaptMatt wrote:
Dont bring me or bigfoot into this.


Screw bigfoot CaptMatt (figuratively). I want to come down to Florida so you can put me on a sea monster!

Posted on: 2007/7/26 15:13
_________________
There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance." -Henry David Thoreau--


Re: How many hunters here?

Joined:
2006/9/10 21:53
From Greensburg, PA
Posts: 13629
Offline
Quote:

FarmerDave wrote:
[quote]

Tom, I covered that exception elsewhere.


I'm sure you did...when I came home the other day it was
already 3 pages long...No, I didn't read it all

Quote:
I grew up in NWPA, and there were deer everywhere at the time. However, I never hit one with a car.


Actually I still haven't hit one...As I said it hit me...I was driving down rt 30 eastbound on the inside lane near the median (jersey barriers) and the deer (according to the lady behind me...I never saw a thing) ran across the west bound lane jumped over the median and my face was where he had planned on landing. There is little hunting in the area but there is much house building. Hunting would not have prevented my accident.

I've lived in Idaho, SWpa, Eastern Pa, went to college in Clarion and drove more than 300 miles some days when I worked TV news and I have never hit a deer.

Posted on: 2007/7/26 15:29


Re: How many hunters here?

Joined:
2006/11/7 8:32
From South West FL
Posts: 260
Offline
Quote:

FarmerDave wrote:
Quote:

CaptMatt wrote:
Dont bring me or bigfoot into this.


Screw bigfoot CaptMatt (figuratively). I want to come down to Florida so you can put me on a sea monster!


We have those too. We call em Tarpon!

Posted on: 2007/7/27 20:11



« 1 ... 3 4 5 (6)



You can view topic.
You cannot start a new topic.
You cannot reply to posts.
You cannot edit your posts.
You cannot delete your posts.
You cannot add new polls.
You cannot vote in polls.
You cannot attach files to posts.
You cannot post without approval.

[Advanced Search]





Site Content
Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
Stay Connected

twitterfeed.com facebook instagram RSS Feed

Sponsors
Polls
Will you be fly fishing this autumn?
Yes 95% (139)
No 0% (0)
Thinking about it 4% (6)
_PL_TOTALVOTES
The poll closed at 2014/10/31 17:56
1 Comment





Copyright 2014 by PaFlyFish.com | Privacy Policy| Provided by Kile Media Group | Design by 7dana.com