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Re: Freestone vs. Limestone Streams (fish coloration,size and strength/weight) Long post

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That looks like a Big Spring Brookie to me

Afish,

I get what you guys are saying. And it is very interesting. I think most wild trout streams dont have this depth like you guys are talking about, however i noticed the opposite on heavily forested streams. Note how many times i mentioned not all fish will look like the darker fish. Hard to tell if there is any variable that holds true on this subject.

Thanks for the thoughts....i never have seen lighter fish like that in deep or dark ponds. Ill have to start looking.

Posted on: 2009/11/6 8:40
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Re: Freestone vs. Limestone Streams (fish coloration,size and strength/weight) Long post
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Over the years I've marveled at this phenomenon and will readily admit that pinning predictable environmental aspects to specific trout coloration is pretty tough. I do agree that there are some very broad generalizations that hold true. In particular, Tim's comment about tannin stain and darker colors is one. This has even been verified in laboratories with smallmouth bass and their color gets darker after being placed in a tannic water environment.
Certain streams do seem to hold particularly good looking browns but I never heard the one about water ph affecting this. Letort, for example, has fish that are often washed out in color and with spot patterns that exhibit few but large spots. (Sundrunk: Yes, the browns above Bonnybrook [Trego's Meadow] were unaffected as the toxin came into Letort from the "left branch"). Yet Letort does produce some nice colored fish. There's a recent entry in the Photos section of a beautiful orange sided Letort brownie. I would suspect that the tendency of limestone browns to be so nicely colored is more a function of diet rather than ph since limestone fish obviously eat a lot of scuds, sow bugs etc that possibly put more chitin in their diet. The most beautiful browns in PA in my experience are found in a small Class A limestoner up in center state. Another subconscious explanation may be that we fish limestone browns more in the late summer and fall when their colors are stronger (?).
Some freestone browns, such as those in the Savage River in Maryland, are real lookers but this is a stream with more scuds than normal for a freestone/tailrace fishery. Hhhmmm....
Of course, in the fall, browns often get the beautiful orange flanks but in my experience this is much more common on male fish larger than about 14 inches. Small male brookies get colored up very nicely but it seems to me that male browns tend to show this coloration later in life.
Trout are never boring.

Posted on: 2009/11/6 8:48


Re: Freestone vs. Limestone Streams (fish coloration,size and strength/weight) Long post
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Quote:

Maurice wrote:
Quote:

afishinado wrote:


So we can conclude that after diet and heredity, light penetration definitely has a bearing on fish coloration making it darker in lighter water and lighter in darker water. To be more precise, the colors really don't change though, just the hue.


Actually, hue is not the correct word. Lightness or brightness of a hue would be correct.



Computing hue
In opponent color spaces in which two of the axes are perceptually orthogonal to lightness, such as CIE L*a*b* (CIELAB) and CIE L*u*v* (CIELUV), hue may be computed together with chroma by converting these coordinates from rectangular form to polar form. Hue is the angular component of the polar representation, while chroma is the radial component.
Specifically, in CIELAB:[5]

while, analogously, in CIELUV:[5]

In practice, a four-quadrant arctangent may be used if available to invert these formulae.
[edit] Computing hue from RGB
Preucil[6] describes a color hexagon, similar to a trilinear plot described by Evans, Hanson, and Brewer,[7] which may be used to compute hue from RGB. To place red at 0°, green at 120°, and blue at 240°, one may solve:

He also used a polar plot, which he termed a color circle.[6] Using R, G, and B, rather than the R, G, and B densities Preucil used, one may compute hue angle using the following scheme: determine which of the six possible orderings of R, G, and B prevail, then apply the appropriate formula; see table below.


HSV color space as a conical object


An illustration of the relationship between the “hue” of colors with maximal saturation in HSV and HSL with their corresponding RGB coordinates.
Ordering Hue Region Formula
Red-Yellow
Yellow-Green
Green-Cyan
Cyan-Blue
Blue-Magenta
Magenta-Red
Note that in each case the formula contains the fraction , where H is the highest of R, G, and B; L is the lowest, and M is the mid one between the other two. This is referred to as the Preucil Hue Error, and was used in the computation of mask strength in photomechanical color reproduction.[8]
Hue angles computed for the Preucil circle agree with the hue angle computed for the Preucil Hexagon at integer multiples of 30 degrees (red, yellow, green, cyan, blue, magenta, and the colors mid-way between contiguous pairs), and differ by approximately 1.2 degrees at odd integer multiples of 15 degrees (based on the circle formula), the maximum divergence between the two.
The process of converting an RGB color into an HSL color space or HSV color space is usually based on a 6-piece piecewise mapping, treating the HSV cone as a hexacone, or the HSL double cone as a double hexacone.[9] The formulae used are those in the table above.


Posted on: 2009/11/6 8:55


Re: Freestone vs. Limestone Streams (fish coloration,size and strength/weight) Long post

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Quote:
Another subconscious explanation may be that we fish limestone browns more in the late summer and fall when their colors are stronger (?).


Good! This is a very good explaination. Goes with the time of year frame. I never thought about exactly what you said, but yes, that is a good reason.

And your right trout never get boring.

Im off to the baby doctor. keep discussing...ive already learned alot guys.

Posted on: 2009/11/6 9:11
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Re: Freestone vs. Limestone Streams (fish coloration,size and strength/weight) Long post
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You're welcome.

Posted on: 2009/11/6 9:12
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Re: Freestone vs. Limestone Streams (fish coloration,size and strength/weight) Long post
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Here is a general article on fish coloration. The "red coloration" section may answer a question brought up earlier:

Fish Coloration . . . Why?
by John Peterson

Have you every wondered when you see a beautiful fish why the fish is colored like it is? There is an enormous variety of colors and color patterns found on fish. Although this is one way to distinguish one fish from another for us hobbyist, there are reasons for the way the fish are colored. Having spent most of my life learning about our finned friends, I find that each day there is something more to learn regarding why our fish are like they are. I hope these facts will help you in analyzing your fish and help you to better understand their needs.

Cryptic Coloration
Many fishes are colored to match their backgrounds. This cryptic coloration is particularly important for sluggish bottom fishes. As a result, they often closely match the bottoms they rest upon, even mimicking irregular patches of light and algae. Some even can change their coloration to match their background.

Silvery
Bright silvery fishes are most characteristic of well-lighted waters, such as inshore waters of lakes or surface waters of the ocean. Usually silvery fish school and the light flashing off the scales helps to confuse predators because individual fish become hard to pick out. They also blend with the light reflected from the surface of the water.

Countershading
Most fishes have dark backs and white bellies. That dark backs help them blend in the dark bottom depths, when viewed from above, whereas the white belly helps them blend with the sky above when viewed from below.

Disruptive Coloration
Another form of camouflage is colors and patterns that break up the outline of the fish, making them harder to see. One of the most common patterns of this type is vertical bars running down each side. This pattern is associated with fishes that live near beds of aquatic plants, such as many of your cichlids. The vertical bars on the fish can blend in with the vertical pattern of the plant stems.

Red Coloration
It seems strange, in a world filled with predators, that so many fish are bright red or have red spots, stripes or fins. Although red is one of the most visible colors to us, it frequently is one of the least visible in the water. The color red is filtered out in the water and fades out at dusk. Red is also one of the last colors to appear at dawn. Fish with red coloration will normally be found in the deeper waters.

Bright Bright Colors
Many fishes have complex color patterns, especially many of the coral reef fishes. The bright colors can be a sign of sex, status or maturity. Another function of the bright colors may be camouflage. On a coral reef, colors are magnified and enhanced on the growth of the reef, so the fish seem to blend in better with their environment. This is especially true when light levels are low and colors are hard to see. The striking patterns may suddenly become disruptive patterns making the fish hard to distinguish from a shadow.

Eye Ornamentation
The eyes of fish are perhaps the most visible feature, especially at a distance. Anyone that has ever done any skin diving will concur with this. They are frequently the focus of attacks by predators and are important in communication with other members of their species. This results in two contrary needs in eye ornamentation. One is to disguise the eyes, the other is to emphasize them. There are many ways to disguise the eyes such as with a black line running through the pupil that is continuous with either horizontal or vertical stripes of the body or by having numerous spots surrounding the eyes that are similar in size to the pupil. The eye can be emphasized by having them brightly tinged with blue, green or yellow. Supplementary patterns such as eye rings can also be found.

Eye Spots
One of the most common marks on fishes, especially juvenile fishes, is a black spot located near the base of the tail. This spot is usually about the size of the eye and may even be emphasized with a light colored ring, while the real eye is disguised. Their principle function is to confuse predators by having them aim for the tail, rather than the head, giving the victim a greater chance to get away.

Lateral Bands
Single dark bands running along the sides of a fish are best developed in schooling fish. Their exact function is not known, but they seem to help keep members of a school properly oriented to one another. They also can be useful in confusing predators because the bands on individual fish in a school seem to blend together making it difficult for the predator to pick out one individual.

Link to source: http://www.mtfb.com/tbas1/FishColoration.html

Posted on: 2009/11/6 9:58


Re: Freestone vs. Limestone Streams (fish coloration,size and strength/weight) Long post

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2009/6/27 23:49
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Quote:

Rookie wrote:
Sal, great post! very informative and interesting. I agree with all that you say above, just going to add some things that I have noticed.

Coloration can vary significantly even within the same stream. Valley Creek brown trout, for example, have many different color variations. I've only fished it twice but caught enough to see these differences. One common variation, at least where I fish, has many spots and an overall light golden brown color. Another common one has fewer spots, and a darker brown on the back fading to a dark yellow. Some of these even have reddish-purple tones running right through the middle of their backs almost like a rainbow trout's stripe. And I have even caught one that had very few spots and an overall greenish sheen. I once saw one that looked jet black as well.

I think coloration is based on exactly where the fish hold, rather than one color prevailing throughout the whole length of a stream. As you have said, shady areas with a dark stream bottom produce dark fish. sunlight or a light bottom produces lighter colored fish. Notice in the pics below how the coloration matches the stream bottom. Its all about camouflage. One thing I always wonder about though, is how do bright red spots help trout blend in? I would think if you look at a trout from the side underwater the red would stand out. Same with red fins on brookies. Maybe it doesnt work on me because I know what to look for?



I noticed that the exposure that your photos were taken, also matched the color scheme of the fish. Could it be that the cells take in color pigments based son lighting?

Posted on: 2009/11/6 10:39


Re: Freestone vs. Limestone Streams (fish coloration,size and strength/weight) Long post

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salvelinusfontinalis,
Glad you like the book and thanks for the good comments. You will find the limestone trout to be more brilliant in color. The colors just really stand out like the red striping, fins and belly colors. But with that said, I have done many Ph studies on some of our freestrone streams and the ones with good Ph have very nicely colored trout. The brookie on my web site is just one of them. Where trout hide also can factor into the coloring.

Mike

Posted on: 2009/11/6 10:45


Re: Freestone vs. Limestone Streams (fish coloration,size and strength/weight) Long post

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Mike,

Did the toxic introduction take place in the cress farm beds above Shenk's Run? I thought I read something about a truck spilling over Bonny brook bridge too? I know we're going back aways but thought I'd ask?

Great book,
Those photo's keep me going thru the winter months
-

Posted on: 2009/11/6 11:07


Re: Freestone vs. Limestone Streams (fish coloration,size and strength/weight) Long post

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2009/11/6 12:15
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These fish were caught on the same stream in different sections separated by one day... Based on these photos, I would have to assume that the color of the stream bottom plays a role in the fishes camouflage...

Attach file:



jpg  Brook.JPG (78.18 KB)
3003_4af45a6a13e92.jpg 733X550 px

jpg  Stream (2).JPG (133.20 KB)
3003_4af45a7aaf1b8.jpg 750X564 px

jpg  Brook (2).JPG (71.50 KB)
3003_4af45a90cea65.jpg 713X536 px

jpg  Stream.JPG (81.79 KB)
3003_4af45a9d4f708.jpg 660X497 px

Posted on: 2009/11/6 12:19


Re: Freestone vs. Limestone Streams (fish coloration,size and strength/weight) Long post

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Afish,

That article was awesome!

Now i understand the whole red thing. I often wondered why a fish hiding from predators would have red on them.

Green,

Welcome i never met you before but welcome to the site.
I like your photos, i dont want to know the name of the stream but in the first pic of the stream it looks like its half a limestone spring creek. Neat little stream!

Mike,

Im sure PH plays a role. Im sure alot of things do. I wont contest what you say, i mean look @ Big Spring Brookies. They are amazing with color. But Letort Browns are dull by most freestone brown trout standards IMHO.

And of course not all Letort Browns are dull, just most of them

Good Stuff guys. I wish some more of the regular posters would chime in.

Posted on: 2009/11/6 12:40
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Re: Freestone vs. Limestone Streams (fish coloration,size and strength/weight) Long post

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Very interesting posting by AFish.

When reading AFish’s posting above and the explanation on colors and shades, etc., don’t just limit it to why trout look like they do – light also affects everything else in the stream.

The angle and intensity of the sunlight hitting a stream has a major impact on what colors work and what colors don’t work at that particular time. Depending on the conditions the wrong color fly can send the trout heading for cover while the right color fly will attract them like a magnet.

White light (visible light) is made up of red, orange, yellow, green, blue and violet spectral colors with red having the longest wavelength and violet the shortest. Water is like a prism and the angle and intensity of the sunlight determines what wavelengths (colors) dominate the trout’s underwater world at a given time. By selecting the appropriately colored/shaded fly based on current sunlight conditions you will greatly improve your success rate. Even the slightest difference in shade (either a bit lighter or darker) can have a major impact in your success.

Posted on: 2009/11/6 13:20


Re: Freestone vs. Limestone Streams (fish coloration,size and strength/weight) Long post

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I think that as far light vs. dark, that has to do with the surroundings of the fish. Have you ever noticed how bait in a white bucket lightens up? (pssst! Little bait fishing tip.)

Posted on: 2009/11/6 13:24
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Re: Freestone vs. Limestone Streams (fish coloration,size and strength/weight) Long post

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As far as I know from Ed it was the run downstream which is still not that far from the bridge.
Mike

Posted on: 2009/11/6 13:26


Re: Freestone vs. Limestone Streams (fish coloration,size and strength/weight) Long post

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Quote:

GreenWeenie wrote:
Very interesting posting by AFish.

When reading AFish’s posting above and the explanation on colors and shades, etc., don’t just limit it to why trout look like they do – light also affects everything else in the stream.

The angle and intensity of the sunlight hitting a stream has a major impact on what colors work and what colors don’t work at that particular time. Depending on the conditions the wrong color fly can send the trout heading for cover while the right color fly will attract them like a magnet.

White light (visible light) is made up of red, orange, yellow, green, blue and violet spectral colors with red having the longest wavelength and violet the shortest. Water is like a prism and the angle and intensity of the sunlight determines what wavelengths (colors) dominate the trout’s underwater world at a given time. By selecting the appropriately colored/shaded fly based on current sunlight conditions you will greatly improve your success rate. Even the slightest difference in shade (either a bit lighter or darker) can have a major impact in your success.


What's the practical, take home, fishing tip from this? How do you choose the right colored fly?

Posted on: 2009/11/6 13:34



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