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Re: Fall, fishing or hunting?

Joined:
2010/4/15 17:24
From Central Maryland
Posts: 239
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Most of the hunting I do is duck, geese, dove, and squirrel, where you're unlikely to let an animal go if you have a shot at it. I'm coming up on my second season of deer hunting, and most of that is on a farm where the owner wants you to take any deer that you see. Of course letting an animal walk is less stressful than catch and release fishing, but it would be like fishing without a hook (which I hear shakey's wife likes to do). You got the first part, fooling the fish with a fly or getting a deer to come into shooting range for you, but you haven't completed it. If you didn't get the fish to hand, you didn't catch it. If you don't shoot, you're nature watching, not hunting.

Fishing is similar, but you can't argue its the same. You can have a great day fishing and not kill any fish. If you don't kill anything while hunting, it was either an unsuccessful day or a great day nature watching. Besides, everything we do is degrees of "less bad." And if you're an animal rights activist, you would say catch and release fishing is less bad than hunting.

Posted on: 2013/7/27 15:10


Re: Fall, fishing or hunting?

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2009/7/18 13:57
From Armstrong County
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Actually a case could be made that catch and keep fishing is "less bad" than catch and release. The fish are caught for a purpose and used as opposed to being 'played with' for personal enjoyment which there is no guarantee that the fish will not be made to suffer or die despite the best intentions.


Posted on: 2013/7/27 15:37


Re: Fall, fishing or hunting?

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2010/4/15 17:24
From Central Maryland
Posts: 239
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That case can be made, but you have to consider that pulling a fish out for good gives that fish no chance to spawn. There are many rivers and streams that get fished heavily and have great populations. If everyone kept every fish they caught, a lot of those rivers would no longer maintain fishable populations. I think past examples of over fishing from salmon runs to shad runs to certain cuthroat species and even saltwater species have proven that catch and release is less bad than catch and keep. No one has ever said damn they really damaged the fishery by making it catch and release. Maybe in a case where the fish become stunted from overpopulation, and then some stress related mortalities would be welcome.

And let's be real here. Most of the fishing we do here is for transplanted or exotic fish. They were put where they were solely for personal enjoyment and often favored in policy over native fish species that aren't "sporting." I love brown trout, and I'm happy that there are reproducing populations in America, but they're a European fish that exists in the states solely for the purpose of recreation. For this reason, the utility of releasing the fish to have a shot at continuing to reproduce and provide recreation to other fisherman is greater than the utility of one small meal. And if the fish happens to die, let it give its energy back to the river to help the other components of the ecosystem live. Or if you get a fish in and know it's probably going to die, then just keep it.

Posted on: 2013/7/27 15:54


Re: Fall, fishing or hunting?

Joined:
2011/8/16 7:41
From Tyrone
Posts: 221
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Good day deer hunting pull the trigger once, good day turkey hunting Pull trigger once, good day grouse pull trigger 10 or 15 times. Good day fly fishing pull the trigger 20 to 40 times. Release the fish catch him again tomorrow.

Posted on: 2013/7/27 18:11


Re: Fall, fishing or hunting?

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2012/2/3 16:30
From Clarion co.
Posts: 258
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No time for hunting here! I fish year round.

Posted on: 2013/7/30 23:57
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Re: Fall, fishing or hunting?

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2006/9/9 13:12
From Berks County, PA
Posts: 179
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I will be archery hunting with my longbow in the Fall and fishing on Sunday's

Ron

Posted on: 2013/8/1 12:23


Re: Fall, fishing or hunting?

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2012/3/22 8:26
From Couldn't Care Less
Posts: 5720
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Don't hunt will fish.

Posted on: 2013/8/1 13:31
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Re: Fall, fishing or hunting?

Joined:
2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
Posts: 13701
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Pontus,

There are many different opinions on stuff like this. For instance, I was recently in Switzerland. They are technically not allowed to C&R on public land. If you catch a fish, you must keep it, you are not allowed to release it. This is an animal rights/moral thing to them. It's seen as ok to to fish or hunt for food, I mean, that's nature's way. But one should not torment the animals merely for the sake of sport! How evil. That would be like a hunter taking only leg shots, so that they could see blood and claim success but their quarry would likely live for another hunter to maim next year.

Quote:
No one has ever said damn they really damaged the fishery by making it catch and release.


I have. There are cases where the stream didn't need such regs, there was no issue to begin with. But by putting them on, it makes it special regs and attracts large crowds.

There's also been discussions about overpopulation and stunted growth, right here on this forum. Many people think, for instance, Spring Creek could use a bit of a culling.

And keep in mind, with hunting, for instance, we choose when the deer season is precisely based on the time when it will damage the deer population the most. Right after the does become pregnant. Every doe you kill is the equivalent, on average, of killing fully 3 deer. It is closely regulated with management units, doe license allocations, etc. And hunters are the only group who advocates killing LESS deer. All of the other pressures come from insurance companies, timber companies, AAA, and the like.

Posted on: 2013/8/1 13:55


Re: Fall, fishing or hunting?

Joined:
2013/2/16 16:06
From Bushkill
Posts: 66
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Fall is for hunting, sundays i fish if the honey do list isnt too long

Posted on: 2013/8/1 13:56


Re: Fall, fishing or hunting?

Joined:
2010/2/15 19:09
From Ohio
Posts: 744
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I don't hunt so I'll be fishing. Please don't shoot at the guys in the water ;)

Posted on: 2013/8/1 16:34


Re: Fall, fishing or hunting?

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2012/3/22 8:26
From Couldn't Care Less
Posts: 5720
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Quote:
boychick wrote:

I don't hunt so I'll be fishing. Please don't shoot at the guys in the water ;)


Just wear orange ... there is a fox in these parts that fancies himself orange hats during hunten season

Posted on: 2013/8/1 16:40
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There are no evil thoughts except one, the refusal to think


Re: Fall, fishing or hunting?

Joined:
2010/2/15 19:09
From Ohio
Posts: 744
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Good advice... I need to buy some orange this year. I was on Spring Creek last year and heard gun shots up the hill, made me a bit nervous.

Posted on: 2013/8/1 16:58


Re: Fall, fishing or hunting?

Joined:
2010/4/15 17:24
From Central Maryland
Posts: 239
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Pat,

I understand the theory behind having to keep the fish you catch, but it definitely seems a little strange to me unless you already have serious overpopulation. I don't think releasing a fish is similar to shooting a deer in the leg due to the differences in the likelyhood of the animal returning to 100% condition.

I agree with you about the special regs, and I should have clarified that I was talking about special regs decreasing the numbers of fish, not affecting the fishing experience as a whole. And you'll see I mentioned overpopulation and stunted growth in my post. I think the Gunpowder would benefit from some controlled harvesting to eliminate some competition and grow some bigger fish.

What you say about the hunting season makes sense, but I always thought the point of hunting in the fall and early winter was that a lot of animals die from starvation, etc in the winter, and that hunting at those times was the most humane way to do things. With no local predators for deer though, I think it's better to kill them and eat them than let them feed the buzzards on the side of the road.

I think you're just trying to play devil's advocate, but I do think there is a reason why we do things the way we do, even if the implementation isn't completely perfect.

Posted on: 2013/8/1 18:13


Re: Fall, fishing or hunting?

Joined:
2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
Posts: 13701
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I was playing devils advocate. However, that is exactly why hunting season, rifle doe anyway, is done shortly after the rut. While we sometimes do have some winter kill from starvation, it's really not all that prominent in PA. More of the winter kill is actually predation.

The does are pregnant and last year's young have typically moved on, hence from a population perspective, 3 deer with 1 shot without orphaning fawns. Deer is a little unique in that management is typically about intentionally reducing the population well below the biologic carrying capacity (at least below the short term carrying capacity of our modified forests). There are a lot of interested parties which advocate for lower deer pops. Farmers, timber, auto insurance, homeowners, etc.

I do consider fishing a bloodsport. In America, our view of conservation is generally not concerned about individual animals and their plight, but more about populations. I'm a product of this and do take the majority view here. But also recognize that not everyone takes that view, and it is not the majority view in many other places.

Posted on: 2013/8/1 20:35


Re: Fall, fishing or hunting?

Joined:
2010/6/24 10:08
Posts: 20
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Bowhunt the first weekend while they are still doing the summer eating habits, corner of field stuff. Then they get all weird, and go nocturnal and move around funny all october, so while that is happening i hit the small game and do some fishing while the fish are putting the feedbag on before winter, then hit the treestand hard for the rut, then wait until after christmas and hit the small game again with the rabbit dog.

At least in a perfect world that is how it goes :)

Posted on: 2013/8/2 1:10



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