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Re: Etiquette?

Joined:
2007/4/5 16:03
From Altoona/Smoke Run
Posts: 734
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Re: What excuse does the casual angler have?

Greed. One thing I've learned. Some people just think everybody else is a slobbish, fish killing, litter machine, and they are the only person who cares about nature and the future of the sport and all the other holier than thou elitist garbage. The reputation of fly fishermen as Elitist snobs has always been something that upset me, but I see it alive and well all too often.

If there are stocked fish in a stream and you bought your license with your hard earned dollar, they are YOUR fish, that is someone elses stream so take care of it, and there is room enough for everyone. I can count on one hand the # of people I know that fish wild trout streams. I prefer to fly fish because I like the challenge, not because it makes me feel like I'm a better person than a bait fisherman. I seen so much crap posted here picking on someone for trying to do what brings me the most joy in the world it's ridiculous. I recall someone picking on someone for fishing A rapala below a bobber like a minnow, take two seconds and show the man/woman/kid how to fish properly and you may be surprised what you've empowered them with. But, you're right it's so much more fun to keep it all for me and then complain when kids don't wanna fish because they don't know where to go and they don't catch anything when they do. I'm done ranting, cuz something else I've learned is the internet is useless when it comes to trying to make a logical point.

Posted on: 2007/4/16 16:26
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No Single Drop Of Rain Feels It Is Responsible For The Flood.


Re: Etiquette?

Joined:
2006/9/9 16:33
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"I recall someone picking on someone for fishing A rapala below a bobber like a minnow"

BPS,
That would be me. That was not me being an elitist. That was me laughing at some funny stuff. It is not my mission in the world to teach grown men (who are crowding me and my kid) how to fish. In fact if some yahoo started offering me unwarrented advice fishing advice, well I think thats elitism.


If a guy don't know the difference between bait and a lure then well I'm surprised he shelled out the money for a license.

Posted on: 2007/4/16 16:42


Re: Etiquette?

Joined:
2006/9/9 17:20
Posts: 235
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I will give you another reason people share information in stream reports - give some to get some. If you create a community where people all share information, then the next time you want to know how a particular stream is fishing then you have a place to go and find that out. There's a bit of a leap of faith involved - there is no guarantee you will get anything valuable in return - but it can work. I think it worked for a while on the Stream Reports section of this board, but I think it works less well now. It's not for everyone, and as I pointed out in another thread I rarely participate anymore. In some cases, like the Kettle Creek example, I don't see how it can do any harm. In other cases, I have been shocked at people posting descriptions or even photos of large wild fish, naming the stream, and saying they cannot imagine why so few people fish there. I'll make one more observation that I dont think has been made this time around (as opposed to years ago in this space) which is that if someone posts stream information you wish had never been posted then the best strategy is to keep your mouth shut and let it blow over - or possibly send the person a PM. In the past folks have sometimes taken off on a rant that just ended up drawing more attention to the "outed" stream.

Posted on: 2007/4/16 16:49


Re: Etiquette?

Joined:
2007/4/5 16:03
From Altoona/Smoke Run
Posts: 734
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Maybe it was his first time fishing.
You don't need to do anything man.
Your mission in life? that's biblical deep, kinda like give a man a fish vs. Teaching a MAN to fish.

I'm not telling you to run up saying "you're doing it wrong" here's a concept ; Introduce yourself,( you remember making friends when you were a kid? well it doesn't have to stop now that your an adult) and ask how it's going, maybe tell them what you find works well for you (trade secrets, I know) and maybe just maybe they'll become a knowledgeable fisherman after time. Or we can laugh at them and make them feel out of place. But, here I go with logic again. Somebody taught you I'm sure, maybe that guy didn't have the luxury of having a mentor like I did, and maybe he's just a jerk who like to steal fishing spots from 4 year olds. I'd at least try to find out. BTW I caught over 50 fish at the little bald eagle in Tyrone and released everyone. 3 were over 20" go get'em they're yours too.

Posted on: 2007/4/16 16:57
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No Single Drop Of Rain Feels It Is Responsible For The Flood.


Re: Etiquette?

Joined:
2006/10/25 12:30
From York
Posts: 450
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I believe that the PFBC has more to do with fishing crowds than any posting on the internet. An example that I have noticed is when they change regulations. On codorus creek they changed the regs to trophy trout. Since the change I have seen a dramatic increase in fishermen (including people using bait). Initially I was a little peeved at the increase in anglers until I stopped being selfish. It's not my stream and everyone has a right to fish it. I still have concern for the quality of fish and how it will be affected by the increase in pressure. But, I think that once the newness of it wears off the pressure will decrease and the fishery will be ok.
As for someone bragging about how many they caught and where, makes no difference to me. Maybe they will take me next time and I can partake in the fun. After all, don't we fish to catch?

Posted on: 2007/4/16 17:03
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Re: Etiquette?

Joined:
2006/9/11 11:30
Posts: 595
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This is endlessly debated, but I leave it to the posters discretion and respect that.

I have been fly fishing for 45 years and here is my take on internet posting. Less people fish, but more people are trout nuts The newbies and casual anglers rarely venture far from the big name streams. Little Lehigh, Spring Ck, Penns Ck you get the picture. No matter how many prods I give I can rarely get casual anglers away from the regular spots and posting about them doesn't bother me.

How about those trout nuts and small wild trout streams? Well they fish all the time, know dozens of streams and any new stream is just another stream on the list. Most crazy trout fishermen I know can't find time to hit all the spots they want to.

The bottom line - I see the special regulations areas and famous spots getting more and more crowded, and since they are well known there is not much you can do. The rest of the streams I fish I actually see less people every year and many I would like to pump up a little interest for so that there are advocates for these streams when the builders show up. Most of this "concern for the trout" when trying to suppress info on the internet seems to be a self centered attempt to keep streams to one's self. There are exceptions of course (my streams!), but that is generally my feeling.

As for Opening Day madness, does any old-timer here think it wasn't crazier in the 1960's when everyone fished on Opening Day, and by everyone I mean every male capable of holding a fishing rod not every fisherman.

I also feel the numbers game is in bad taste. General info is enough.

Posted on: 2007/4/16 17:11


Re: Etiquette?

Joined:
2006/12/13 9:28
From Other side of the tracks
Posts: 19008
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Actually chaz, not all wild streams are listed on the PA website. I'm sure you know of a couple that aren't on it. I know of a couple.

Posted on: 2007/4/16 17:25
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There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance." -Henry David Thoreau--


Re: Etiquette?

Joined:
2006/9/10 16:07
From Pine Grove
Posts: 2424
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LASAGNA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Boyer

Posted on: 2007/4/16 17:26


Re: Etiquette?
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/9 9:29
From Monessen, PA
Posts: 22464
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Ah, that reminds me: I had some great lasagna at a little restaurant somewhere east of Pittsburgh, but West of Harrisburg. I had like 4 helpings and the waitress was gorgeous. She did nothing but wait on me because there was no one else in the place. I'm sure you understand that I can't give out the name because next time I can't chance that it will be crowded and that pretty waitress won't be paying all her attention to me.

Posted on: 2007/4/16 17:35
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Nietzsche was stupid and abnormal.

-- Leo Tolstoy


Re: Etiquette?

Joined:
2006/9/10 16:07
From Pine Grove
Posts: 2424
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I've eaten there, and my waitress was 3" teller than your waitress!!!! She fed me 5 helpings. I think it was skill!

Boyer

Posted on: 2007/4/16 17:40


Re: Etiquette?

Joined:
2006/9/28 14:40
From Philadelphia
Posts: 380
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JackM & Mattboyer,
Ok, so if I triangulate where you boys are generally, and figure you're not travelling salesman, which means you eat no more than 20 miles from home on average, and I get out my AAA guide to out of the way eating places with gorgeous waitresses in the general vicinity, and then factor in a couple of variable coordinates such as over and underpasses and/or the Pa. Turnpike, and if I can get close enough to spend the time sampling, I can take my best friend who should be grateful enough to buy my dinner but courteous enough to leave the waitress to me.

the only question wouldbe what weight line should I use on the waitress.
Coughlin

Posted on: 2007/4/16 20:11


Re: Etiquette?

Joined:
2006/10/26 23:01
From Ohio
Posts: 657
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Keeping lasagna recipies secret is where I draw the line.......

Posted on: 2007/4/16 20:24


Re: Etiquette?

Joined:
2006/10/26 23:01
From Ohio
Posts: 657
Offline
OK, seriously, I think that if any of you think that keeping a stream secret is vital to the future of a fisherery, you're wrong. Unless you share it no one will value it, protect it, and ensure access to it. Now your FISHING may suffer because someone may be in "your" hole more often, but lets be honest you're protecting your FISHING not the FISHERY.

Whenever I'm on the stream I always say hello. Some people grunt, others ignore me - if you talk to me I'll tell you what hatches and fish I've seen. I suppose this makes me a idealistic fool.

Went fishing this saturday in the Smoky Mountains with one of my INTERNET mentors and well as two people I have taught to fly fish. I had built rods for all three and all caught fish using them. I caught fish with flies that one of them had tied. Wonderful.

What I think is rude is people that show pictures or tell stories and don't share a durn thing (fly patterns, sizes, techniques or locations). This is what my momma taught me is bragging, and I try not to do that.

Don't even get me started on people who get on people for sharing or outright misdirect people........way too many fly fisherman like that.....sorry if you disagree but I think you are a poor sportsman if you do those things. Say something positive or don't say anything at all.

All this being said I don't get any more specific than a well known stream anymore on the internet because if I share more details people's knickers get in a twist.

Posted on: 2007/4/16 20:41


Re: Etiquette?

Joined:
2006/9/21 0:02
From Pittsburgh
Posts: 4331
Offline
Ohio outdoorsman:

please explain how posting info about a small unstocked native stream is going to protect it.
I figure all you're going to do by drawing attention to it is make it more crowded, make the fish harder to catch, and possibly send meat fishermen there who could legally kill 5 fish. And if the stream is on private land, it could possibly cause the landowner to get fed up and post it.
You can't be certain that everyone who reads this site practices catch and release. Now, I'm sure most guys on here do, but you never know. These streams are too fragile to chance it IMO.
That said, if I were able to make it to the Jamboree - which, unfortunately I can't this year, because I'm working that weekend, - after getting to know you guys, i would probably gladly share info about native streams.
I also do it with guys I know from my TU chapter.

Posted on: 2007/4/16 22:15


Re: Etiquette?
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/9 19:16
From Dallastown, PA
Posts: 7112
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Quote:

dryflyguy wrote:
Ohio outdoorsman:

please explain how posting info about a small unstocked native stream is going to protect it.
I figure all you're going to do by drawing attention to it is make it more crowded, make the fish harder to catch, and possibly send meat fishermen there who could legally kill 5 fish. And if the stream is on private land, it could possibly cause the landowner to get fed up and post it.
You can't be certain that everyone who reads this site practices catch and release. Now, I'm sure most guys on here do, but you never know. These streams are too fragile to chance it IMO.
That said, if I were able to make it to the Jamboree - which, unfortunately I can't this year, because I'm working that weekend, - after getting to know you guys, i would probably gladly share info about native streams.
I also do it with guys I know from my TU chapter.


With all that said, how can you share with anybody? How can you be certain they wont tell their brother who tells someone outside the circle and they to the internet.

Secret streams must go to the grave.

Seriously, I don't like to hear streams talked about that I treasure either but the last thing I would do is draw more attention to it by calling them out and dragging it on and on and on.

I have a mental code of sensitive streams that people have cried about seeing on here. It is not that long actually...maybe my memory is going. But I can tell you Kettle Creek is not one of them. I am glad I know about them. Even if I never fish them, I can try to evaluate their rise to fame and failure over the years.

That said, I have to fall on the side of keeping things low profile, like you, and trust my judgement with the people I feel closer to than those who lurk on internet websites.

Maurice

Posted on: 2007/4/16 22:49
_________________
Don't hit me with them negative waves so early in the morning. Think the bridge will be there and it will be there. It's a mother, beautiful bridge, and it's gonna be there. Ok?



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