Early opener this year may be part of the problem

[RRR]

I've been trying to figure out why so many wild browns are showing up on stringers on many S.E. PA streams this year compared to other years. In years passed, I never saw or heard of all that many wild fish being creeled by bait/spin fishermen. This year that's all people are talking about on stocked streams that have wild trout in them.I never used to worry much about bait fishermen catching the wild ones as I could fish a stretch that a bait fisherman had already been thru and catch them pretty good on flies. I beleive that once the bugs start to get active and are more readily available to the fish, the wild ones switch over to eating insects almost exclusively. Especially once they start surface feeding. This year with the early opener the wild fish were probably eating more minnows or whatever else they could find as the cold water and air temps. kept bug activity to a bare minimum until after the season would have normally opened. The bugs were staying under their rocks and were not readily accessable to the trout. Or possibly it's because fewer hatchery fish were available and fishermen had to fish longer and cover alot more water to limit out so more wild ones were caught and creeled in the process. Whatever the reason, I know alot more wild fish have been taken out of the streams than in years past.

 

[afishinado]

RRR

I've noticed the same about wild fish ending up on the stringer. All good theories - add higher, off color water early in the season makes bait fisherman more effective, to the list of theories.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

i havent seen that, but i can belive it. all in the name of trout season :roll:

 

[JackM]

A lot of the stream reports being given so far this year indicate that bugs are hatching, but the trout aren't rising. I was wondering whether the PFBC can be blamed for that phenomena as well.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

im sure i could find a way if i think hard enuff! :-D
its thier fault because they feed those harchery trout pellets instead of hartchey raised BWO'S!

 

[Wulff-Man]

Sal, you took the words out of my mouth! I think the PFBC causes global warming, too.

 

[pennsangler]

I've never seen any studies that indicate trout eat more minnows in the winter than they do at other times of the year. Bugs are available year round, either through hatches, behavioral drift, etc.

The only arguement that I could see being valid is the fact that most people fishing for stocked trout quit by some time in May. If you can argue the point that the date that they quit fishing is a set date and not based on a certain number of weeks from the opening of the season, you could say that in SE PA, these fisherman are now on the water two extra weeks.

 

[Fishidiot]

RRR,
You may be on to something - it's plausible. However, the claims that more wild fish are being caught are tough to prove. The times I have been out on waters with both wild and stocked fish I have done well on the wild fish while fly fishing but have seen only stockies hanging from stringers. I do agree that the lower, clearer waters of late April and May (with more insect activity) does make it harder for bait and spin guys to catch fish.

 

[RRR]

Fishidiot You're right,it is hard to prove. I'm just saying that my own personal observations earlier this year had me seeing many more wild trout on stringers than in years past. If you read some of the posts by others on this board, they witnessed the same thing. I don't know how often you fish and how much of that time is spent on stocked waters that also contain good wild trout populations. I fish nearly everyday and fish either this type of streams or ones with all wild trout. I have seen significant harvest on both types this year where I never did in the past. Also, people I talk to while I'm fishing these streams are also saying the same thing. I haven't seen many wild trout on stringers the last week or two but saw lots of them early in the season. And pennsangler, while I understand that the nymphs and larva of the insects are in the stream all year long, with the exception of midges, most stay under their rocks or in the mud depending on the species and don't really become all that available to trout til it warms up and they prepare for emergence. They become much more active at this time and become much more readily available as trout food. If this were not true, why would most people use big Godawful flies like Buggers and streamers more early in the season?

 

[pennsangler]

People fish larger flies in cold water because of the fish not the insects. The fish don't want to move very far for food in cold water so you throw a larger fly to give them a reason to move farther for a meal.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

there is absolutely nothing wrong with a woolly bugger! :-D
but you can catch early season stockers on flies like the greenie weenie and a bright egg pattern. what penns said is absolutly correct, it gives them a reason to move. but these fish not used to feeding in the wild really what something they can hone in on, bright colors or big prey. they dont know any better.

 

[steve98]

Although everyone here makes good and valid points that are well taken.

I feel as though we are reading into the early stocking issue a little too much.

may flies, midges, stone flys etc. Hatch 24-7, 365 a year all day and every day and that is a fact. We all know it. Sometime a little more often, and with more numbers than other times.
pending water temp air temp water flow etc.

I do not worry about the amount of fish the bait or spinner guy is getting even if they are or may be native or wild.

Most of them have put away their trout tackle by now anyway and are focusing on the bass.

Steve98

 

[Squaretail]

I didnt know about the 24-7, 365 days a year part. On some limestoners maybe, but theres alot I dont know.
I do know the early start also extended the amount of time the warmwater men spent on the trout streams. For the most part they just dont care about trout like most of us do and have no problem watching a small trout float belly up downstream after tearing the swallowed hook out of its gullet so they dont have to re-tie. I've watched it.
With the things that were done this year as far as the PFBC is concerned, it isnt a good match in general for fly men. Sure I'll catch some, always do. Hopefully next year some adjustments can be made.
Come on PINE CREEK! Fesstus, you back yet?

 

[troutbert]

Another explanation might be that wild trout populations are up. When we had several bad drought years in close succession it seemed like wild trout populations took a hit. Some areas have had better flows in recent years and maybe populations have just bounced back a bit.

Or maybe the fencing projects, riparian buffers etc. are actually helping? It's nice to think so.

 

[Chaz]

I haven't been out enough to be able to make any judgement on whether more wild trout are being harvested. But because the numbers of anglers on stream during the early season, I'd bet it's happening. That's why I objected to the early season in the first place.
The early season should only be used on ATW's not on wild trout streams and wild trout streams should not be stocked for the early opener. They shouldn't be stocked anyway, but that is another discussion.
And Jack, this is SE PA we have a lot of wild trout streams here, we know what we're talking about. PFBC ignores science unless it suits some purpose of theirs.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

chaz i agree fully.
those streams should not be stocked. and that is what i meant in another thread "that those who win the war write history". pfbc data is good and all but they or anyone can make the data say anything. "science" can be objective. i know thats gonna get a comment. so ill explain alittle more. data is what it is. but we can make a million reasons why they data says what it says.
ex:
wild trout populations are down and fluxing "probably" due to a drought year.

they wont say

wild trout populations are down and fluxing probably due to stocking and overharvest.

 

[afishinado]

No scientific data is needed to determine whether more wild trout are harvested because of the early openeer in the southeast. The bulk of the trout harvest was for the most part in 8 weeks, from mid April to mid June (the opening of bass harvest season). The harvest season is now 10 weeks, from the beginning of April to mid June. Logic will tell you that more wild trout will be taken, especially in aprroved waters containing wild trout.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

good point. i was fishing a wild trout stream that is stocked. it has tons of wild brookies and a few wild browns. the first hole from the stocking point (a bridge) i caught a 13 inch wild brown. i was shocked my first thought was.....how did you manage not to end up a stringer. like i said i havent witnessed more wild trout harvest......but im sure it is going on.

 

[JackM]

Why doesn't the fact that someone caught a nice wild fish near a bridge stocking point prove the opposite conclusion from what is being urged regarding the alleged decimation of the wild trout populations? I can only wonder whether the stocking in that general area actually worked to protect that wild trout from harvest. Aren't stockers supposed to be even dumber than wild fish? How many stockers were removed from that hole before this wild fish presented himself to be impaled by the skillful hand of a C&R fly angler? Just some questions that occur to me in reading this morning.

Don't forget to vote today.

 

[matt]

If the state would just stop stocking waters with natural reproduction this might not be as much of a problem. Even though stocking keeps most fisherman off of our Class A streams, I can't help but wonder how many streams that are stocked that have the potential of being class A. I can think of quite a few stocked streams where I catch dozens of trout in the fall with only a few of the fish being stocked. I can only imagine what these streams would be without the competition of stocked trout.