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Donny Beaver and Field and Stream call us out

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2006/10/26 23:01
From Ohio
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Spending most of my weekend staining my deck instead of fishing, I sat down to read my F and S that came on friday. Low and behold, there is a article on pages 32-36 about Donny Beaver and the Spring Ridge club.

Much of the article is sympathetic to Beaver and spends a few paragraphs on the internet reaction to Beaver's efforts. Beaver and F and S basically call the PA blog sites as being ineffective.

"They could do what I'm doing instead of bitching on the Internet. I'd even show them how to contact landowners and raise money," Beaver says. "Access is being lost at an alarming pace. I'm either going to watch it and moan or I'm going to participate."

While I'm not going to defend Beaver, he does have a point.

Consider:

1) Access and habitat is decreasing
2) The PFBC focuses on stocking instead of conserving wild trout watersheds.
3) TU national has pulled out of the access debate.
4) In about a year of lurking and a year of membership, I have seen and particpated in many debates about regs, conservation, etc....a tremendous amount of energy.

Maybe its time for action. Without the PFBC and without TU.

Could we harness the power of the internet and raise funds for the purchase and/or lease land that would preserve habitat for and public access to our wild trout resources?

Some forums I belong to have a fund or fundraisers, I do not know how these operate, but it could be a start........

Maybe we should take Beaver up on his offer.

Yours in trout,

Bill

Posted on: 2007/5/20 19:17


Re: Donny Beaver and Field and Stream call us out

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i know your not defending him and he does have a point. BUT!
isnt the fact that the SRC is buying up streams and closing them off to members the same as posting it? isnt he just as much a part of the problem? hes a joke and its not a funny one at that.

Posted on: 2007/5/20 19:40
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Re: Donny Beaver and Field and Stream call us out

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Dear Ohio Outdoorsman,

As an addendum, TU national is not out of the access debate after being told in no uncertain terms by many State TU's that backing away from the access debate would alienate many if not most TU'ers. National was roundly chastized for their sell out attitude and they had a change of heart.

Like Sal said, if Beaver posts it or the landowner posts it it's still posted and off limits. He's no hero.

Regards,
Tim Murphy

Posted on: 2007/5/20 20:22


Re: Donny Beaver and Field and Stream call us out

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Well, I hope you're right on TU national. But I also received my TROUT magazine from TU on friday.

On Page 5, in a letter, TU president Charles Gauvin says:

"The reality is that stream access is not, and never has been, part of TU's mission or vision."

All I'm saying is why not use Beaver's tactics (raise money and buy land or lease land) to keep land un-posted and ensure public access on our wild trout streams. This would be much more productive than bashing Beaver or arguing whether Little J should be C and R or all-tackle trophy trout or whether slot limits would work on brookie streams, yadayadayadayada......

Posted on: 2007/5/20 21:32


Re: Donny Beaver and Field and Stream call us out

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Dear Ohio Outdoorsman,

I think that was more of a case that the letter from Gauvin was already at the printer's than it was an actual policy statement.

If you like to take the time to read what some of the State Leadership Council's wrote to TU national when the news first broke about this you can read it here. A lot of people who are very active TU members in a number of States chimed in with their thoughts. There are over 5 pages of comments here but there are a lot of good thoughts.

http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=597676

As to your point about purchasing access unless it is in the form of an irrevocable easement like New York State does with fishing and hunting easements I am against it.

I just see too many problems with actually purchasing tracts of land to maintain stream access. There are too many streams that are made up of many small patches of land rather than one continous parcel. I see people holding out for more money than their neighbors, or reneging on offers to sell unless they get their price. I can see a landowner who has traditionally offered access feeling miffed that now people are being paid for land when they had been giving it away. I short, I don't think it will work.

Regards,
Tim Murphy

Posted on: 2007/5/20 23:11


Re: Donny Beaver and Field and Stream call us out

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OHIOOUTDOORMAN I don't think you realized what Beaver was doing at all. Beaver was buying land on specific waterways so that he could then close them to the public and charge 50,000 dollar membership fees to his SRC. Now, the SRC wasn't likely to be for those who truly love fishing, it was more likely to cater to the wealthy elite from Washington DC, NY, or NJ; who have that kind of cash to throw around. I know for a fact that the Wash Post had a story on the SRC.

Now, I would much rather have a landowner post a stream and keep it in his/her own family; than have some D-bag like Beaver buy up prime realestate and then block access.

Also, since the Little J was deemed navigable, its a moot point because you can access the water without punishment via entry points. Beaver was trying to stop anyone from accessing his stretches.

And I bet I can predict the future: If the day would come when Donny Beaver realized that his land on the rivers was worth more than his SR Club was making him, he would sell it off to the first home developer that came calling. He is solely a profiteer.

Posted on: 2007/5/20 23:26


Re: Donny Beaver and Field and Stream call us out

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I'vr been saying the same thing since Elk Run had a section posted, and that has been at least 10 year ago.

Posted on: 2007/5/21 6:17


Re: Donny Beaver and Field and Stream call us out

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For the record, I think what Beaver does/did is wrong and does nothing for the fish or the future of the sport. I really kind of miffed at F and S for publishing what was in essence a 4 page advertisment for the Spring Ridge Club.

If the project focused on smaller unavigable rivers that had large tracts of undeveloped lands and operated on a very low key level until a lot of the land was bought or under trust it would work.

As far as with navigable rivers, access seams to be dependedent on the whims of the judge hearing the case. I would like something more permanent.

Alternatively, the money could be used to pay a small royalty to all landowners who allow access to approved trout waters as a way of saying thank you for putting up with all the crap that allowing access causes.

Tim, you bring up good points. But, unfortunately, I think both hunting and fishing are becoming increasingly pay to play sports. While we may not each be able to afford our own stream, if we band together we could afford streams for all of us to use and ensure that our decendants will have them also.....

Posted on: 2007/5/21 7:02


Re: Donny Beaver and Field and Stream call us out
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In a way, the mechanism for this already exists in the PA CAP program. The problem is that while people complain about access, they aren't willing to make the donations necessary. I suggest looking into the CAP program and considering whether it deserves our efforts to publicize it so that the fund can increase.

Posted on: 2007/5/21 7:12
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Re: Donny Beaver and Field and Stream call us out
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2006/9/13 12:42
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I'm not sure I understand the criticism in the F&S article. It strikes me as saying Microsoft is ineffective because it can't deliver a pizza in thirty minutes or less.

PAFF is not raising money to guarantee stream access, because PAFF is not a fundraising entity. It doesn't even cover it's own bills.

I think if fundraising is your goal, you should organize a group to do that work. By all means use PAFF and it's readership as part of your strategy. PAFF has been effective in mobilizing people to join in on the efforts of other groups. TU Chapters post their work days here. We organized people to oppose the renewal of the Big Spring Hatchery discharge permit. And since Donny Beaver spent so much time criticizing us here (through his people) and in email (to me, and presumably Dave) I have to think we were more effective in keeping pressure on him than the article indicated.

The thing that gets to me about this idea is a truism about business websites. "There are no online businesses". There is business that is done on line, but if it isn't a valid business in the real world being online isn't going to save it. If you want to make a difference in raising money for this issue, organize a group that has a valid and effective overall strategy.

Posted on: 2007/5/21 7:38
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Re: Donny Beaver and Field and Stream call us out

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A while ago I posted about adding a 1.00 or more charge to the license fee for stream access only and it was received with mixed reaction. Maybe now is the the time to PFC push for it?

Posted on: 2007/5/21 7:51


Re: Donny Beaver and Field and Stream call us out

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Padraic,

I am not in any way calling out or criticizing this website.....just wondering if the internet could be used as a fundraising tool. PAFF is probably not the most appropriate place for this. PAFF is a wonderful website, and sounds like it is like most forums, is a profitless labor of love for those involved.

Jack -

How could I/we find out more about PA CAP?

Posted on: 2007/5/21 8:02


Re: Donny Beaver and Field and Stream call us out
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Here's a start: http://sites.state.pa.us/PA_Exec/Fish_Boat/qpfbcgift.htm

Also, I think it is in the regs booklet.

Posted on: 2007/5/21 8:05
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I don't like scrambled eggs, and I'm glad I don't, because if I liked them, I'd eat them, and I just hate them. --Hank


Re: Donny Beaver and Field and Stream call us out

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2006/9/28 14:40
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I agree with Wmass (and others). if Beaver buys up land and closes off streams to the public, that's no different than a landowner posting. Except that I can occasionally get a landowner to grant permission and I rather doubt that Beaver would be as generous.
Coughlin

Posted on: 2007/5/21 8:58


Re: Donny Beaver and Field and Stream call us out

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The landowner needs compensated, no argument about that. Now how is the best way to do that?? Why not a system set up where you can pay the landowner through a permit, which you buy at any place that sells licenses, with the internet it should be pretty easy, the funds would go directly to the landwoners account. Landowners do NOT NEED a third party profiting from their streams, they should just market (and improve) the stream for income, just like they market ther crop fields. Wouldn't it be worth a "sum" of money to proetct access and actually improve your favorite stream? Another thought, why not have a rod fee on state owned premimum waters and that income go towards purchase of stream access?

Posted on: 2007/5/21 9:00



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