Did someone get it wrong?

[Chaz]

All the talk about Spring Creek reminded me of something I've been wondering about for some time now. Why is the stream that Spring flows into still called Bald Eagle Creek below the junction? anyone with half a mind would see all the flow is coming from Spring Creek below that point. There lot's of other creeks that have similar circumstances, what's up with that?

 

[sandfly]

What do you wanted called "CHAZ CREEK"....LOLOLOOLOL
Or RODRIGRITZ RUN LOLOLOLOL

 

[pete41]

The stream that starts at the higher elevation,all things else being basically equal is considered the source.

 

[Maurice]

pete41 wrote:
The stream that starts at the higher elevation,all things else being basically equal is considered the source.

BAM

I did not know that.....sounds reasonable to me....Pety, you earned one day pass....use it wisely! :-D

 

[Mariner]

Although counter-intuitive, elevation does not define "order of tribute" according to the USGS, flow (as measured by cubic feet per second) does. Flow can change season to season, but less so with spring creeks. However, for purposes of assigning toponymic classification, the USGS generally defers to tradition (largely based on commercial navigation) rather than measurable CFS data.

Low elevation headwaters can have more flow than higher elevation headwaters if they have relatively high rainfall, high surface area in headwaters, and porous geologic formations.

If CFS was the true measure of what differentiates the main branch from a tributary ( and I think it should) then the Mississippi's source would be in Potter County, PA.

 

[troutbert]

the USGS generally defers to tradition.

I think that is pretty close to being the full explanation of how streams were named. I don't think their naming is rule-based at all. If the old time settlers called it Mudlick Run, or Bearwallow Hollow, that's what the USGS calls it.

 

[dryflyguy]

Bald eagle creek follows a rather straight course through the big valley along bald eagle mountain - beginning around port matilda.
Spring creek starts up above boalsburg, and winds down thru a large gap in bald eagle mountain between Bellefonte and Milesburg, before making a sharp right turn as it enters at the junction. Looking at a topographic map, the way they're named looks pretty logical IMO.

 

[Chaz]

If you based it on elevation or stream flow it would be Spring Creek. My guess is it's what the indians called it and the whites adopted the name.

 

[troutbert]

Chaz wrote:
If you based it on elevation or stream flow it would be Spring Creek. My guess is it's what the indians called it and the whites adopted the name.

From Centre County Historical Society's website:

"Chief Bald Eagle's principal camp was near Milesburg, resulting in the naming of Bald Eagle Creek, Bald Eagle Mountain, and Bald Eagle Valley."

 

[TheDude]

Why does size have anything to do with it? Bald Eagle flows as straight shot right along the mountain for miles and miles, minding it's own business. Spring Creek is one of many that dumps into it along the way. Bald Eagle Creek has noticeably different geological features that stay consistent both above and below Spring Creek. Geologically speaking, Spring Creek ends at Bald Eagle, despite how much water each has at their confluence.

 

[pete41]

Well-I know the source of the Missouri is in Yellowstone Park on the Firehole as thats the highest point of any of the three streams that meet at 3 Forks Montana to form the Missouri-Thats also higher than the source of the Mississippi so it gets confusing.

 

[albatross]

Pretty nice brook trout fishery above the cascades near the source of the Firehole. At least it was in 2005.

 

[pete41]

When I see the size of the Pa brookies compared to the ones out west that few pursue I figure the man was right
"Ignorance is bliss".

 

[Stone_Fly]

The Friehole River is not the source of the Missouri, the source of the Missouri is at Lemhi Pass on Red Rock creek. It is in the Beaverhead drainage.


Meriwether Lewis in his journal entry on July 28, 1805 wrote:

"Both Capt. C. and myself corresponded in opinon with rispect(sic) to the impropriety of calling either of these [three] streams the Missouri and accordingly agreed to name them after the President of the United States and the Secretaries of the Treasury and state."
The Lewis and Clark decision not to call the Jefferson the Missouri has spurred debate over what is the longest river in North America since the Missouri and Mississippi are nearly identical in length. With the Jefferson the Missouri would be the longest river.

Lewis (who had followed the Jefferson River to the Beaverhead River) said that on August 12, 1805, he visited Beaverhead tributary of Trail Creek just above Lemhi Pass on the Continental Divide in the Beaverhead Mountains on the Montana and Idaho border at around 8,600 feet (2,600 m) which he described:

"the most distant fountain of the waters of the mighty Missouri in surch(sic) of which we have spent so many toilsome days and wristless(sic) nights."
However in 1888 Jacob V. Brower, who had championed turning the headwaters of the Mississippi River into a Minnesota state park, visited a site in Montana which today is believed to be the furthest point on the Missouri -- now called Brower's Spring. Brower published his finding in 1896 in "The Missouri: Its Utmost Source."

The site of Brower's Spring lies at around 8,800 feet (2,700 m) in the Centennial Mountains. The site is now commemorated by a rock pile at the source of Hellroaring Creek which flows into Red Rock River and then into Clark Canyon Reservoir where it joins the Beaverhead then the Big Hole River before ultimately hooking up with the Jefferson.

In Montana, the river is a Class I water from Three Forks to the North Dakota border for the purposes of public access for recreational purposes.

So these namings are somewhat controversial.

 

[pete41]

okay then charles brooks was wrong-he bad-lol

 

[FarmerDave]

then you have the "three rivers" in Pittsburgh.

First of all, there are only 2 unless you count the underground river. They are the Allegheny, and the Monongahela. The Monongahela is two or three times as wide as the Allegheny, but the Allegheny has 2 or three times the flow. so, which one should carry the name past the junction? Alas, the combination of the two is called the Ohio River.

Rumor has it, the name downstream was changed because the neighbors to the west couldn’t spell Allegheny or Monongahela. Heck, they couldn’t even spell Cleaveland when they were making their maps. (Cleveland is named after Moses Cleaveland)

Calling the larger flow (Allegheny) the Ohio river wouldn't work either. you can't have a river cutting all the way across the state of Pennsylvania, called the Ohio river especially when it doesn't actually flow "through" Ohio.

 

[tomgamber]

FarmerDave wrote:
then you have the "three rivers" in Pittsburgh.

First of all, there are only 2 unless you count the underground river. They are the Allegheny, and the Monongahela. The Monongahela is two or three times as wide as the Allegheny, but the Allegheny has 2 or three times the flow. so, which one should carry the name past the junction? Alas, the combination of the two is called the Ohio River.

that makes three and yes, it happens within the city limit.

Calling the larger flow (Allegheny) the Ohio river wouldn't work either. you can't have a river cutting all the way across the state of Pennsylvania, called the Ohio river especially when it doesn't actually flow "through" Ohio.

It makes up Ohio's entire southern border. Kind of like the way the Delaware River an B ay make up the state of Delaware's eastern border...

 

[David]

tomgamber wrote:

FarmerDave wrote:
then you have the "three rivers" in Pittsburgh.

First of all, there are only 2 unless you count the underground river.

that makes three and yes, it happens within the city limit.

It actually makes 4...I didn't think many people knew about the river that feeds the fountain. Good call FD - but poor math

http://www.clpgh.org/exhibit/neighborhoods/point/point_n77.html

 

[tomgamber]

what? You don't listen to John Madden? According to him (on a Monday Night game broadcast ) All three rivers converge at the point causing the water to shoot into the air...

 

[David]

tomgamber wrote:
what? You don't listen to John Madden? According to him (on a Monday Night game broadcast ) All three rivers converge at the point causing the water to shoot into the air...

Did he really say that? He retired about 2 decades after he should have!