Dead trout on Pine

[BradFromPotter]

Here's a photo of just some of the dead trout on Pine near Galeton :-(

 

[Phish_On]

That makes me sad

 

[dryflyguy]

I'm surprised to see it that far upstream.
I guess there's a dam - or something else in that area - that blocked them from migrating to cooler water?

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

:-o Wow

A few of those fish are really really nice. Shame

 

[jdaddy]

Temps?

 

[The_Sasquatch]

Yeah they dam up the creek right in downtown Galeton to make this big "lake"/swimming hole/picnic area type deal. On top of it, Brad doesn't a sewage line or something dump into the Pine right there at the Acorn (I think its an Acorn) store at the "square" in Galeton?

 

[evw659]

wow, theres a lot of nice ones there. its a shame they couldnt make past the dam too find cooler water.

 

[BradFromPotter]

The_Sasquatch wrote:
Yeah they dam up the creek right in downtown Galeton to make this big "lake"/swimming hole/picnic area type deal. On top of it, Brad doesn't a sewage line or something dump into the Pine right there at the Acorn (I think its an Acorn) store at the "square" in Galeton?

The sewer plant is downstream of the dam. Back in the late 90's a friend & myself started the Tiadagton TU Chapter. The main goal was to get a fish ladder put in at the dam. We could not get much support for the chapter so it faded away. During normal flows the trout can get up the South branch of Pine to cooler water. I have heard of several hundred trout dead! Several of these trout are over 20" !!

 

[Fishidiot]

Yeah, it's a shame...but lets keep in mind that these fish are stocked with the understanding they will be harvested (hopefully) by anglers. Stocked streams that warm in the summer all have die offs (most years) of the fish that survived the early months of trout season. Happens every year. Not every trout stream can hold stocked fish all year.

 

[BradFromPotter]

Fishidiot wrote:
Yeah, it's a shame...but lets keep in mind that these fish are stocked with the understanding they will be harvested (hopefully) by anglers. Stocked streams that warm in the summer all have die offs (most years) of the fish that survived the early months of trout season. Happens every year. Not every trout stream can hold stocked fish all year.

This is only the 2nd year since 1993 that I can remember that we had trout die because of high temps & low water. Pine has a great holdover population of trout.

 

[Fishidiot]

BradFromPotter wrote:

Fishidiot wrote:
Yeah, it's a shame...but lets keep in mind that these fish are stocked with the understanding they will be harvested (hopefully) by anglers. Stocked streams that warm in the summer all have die offs (most years) of the fish that survived the early months of trout season. Happens every year. Not every trout stream can hold stocked fish all year.

This is only the 2nd year since 1993 that I can remember that we had trout die because of high temps & low water. Pine has a great holdover population of trout.

Brad,
My comment was a general observation about the die off of stocked trout (too many catch and release purists get upset at images such as these). The fact of the matter is....this is a common occurence on stocked trout streams across PA most summers when we have weather such as this (and last year). While I don't deny that this may be rare on Pine Creek in Potter Co.....Pine is a very long trout stream and downriver temps do indeed get very warm in summer. In the Cedar Run section, the mean daily temp recorded since the 1940s in July is 72 and daily highs over 80 are common. Only cold water tributaries allow for trout survival when water temps are this warm. Other streams that lack such coldwater influences will invariably see most stocked trout die by August. These fish would have been better suited to harvest by anglers on such waters IMO.

 

[rrt]

I, too, am sorry to see this. I am afraid this is going to happen, maybe in not quite as dramatic numbers in one place, in quite a few places this year -- after the last heat wave and the one that has just started and is to last another week. An angler posted the temps of the Little Juniata River at various locations during the heat wave on the LJRA website, and the temps there are pretty discouraging and will likely result in dead trout there, too, though, hopefully, the thermal refuges will save most of the fish on the river. It's probably good that my wife, granddaughter, and granddaughter's friend are making me go to Cape May this week; though I sat out the previous heat wave, I'd probably be tempted to try some places if I were at home, knowing I shouldn't. Though August is normally my toughest trout-fishing month -- other than Jan/Feb -- I am looking foward to the cooler temps we usually get during the second half of the month. (And, yes, I know I could/should fish for smallies, but I am hooked so badly by the trout that I normally do not.) As F/I said, I guess this is a good case for killing and grilling stocked trout.

 

[BradFromPotter]

Fishidiot wrote:

BradFromPotter wrote:

Fishidiot wrote:
Yeah, it's a shame...but lets keep in mind that these fish are stocked with the understanding they will be harvested (hopefully) by anglers. Stocked streams that warm in the summer all have die offs (most years) of the fish that survived the early months of trout season. Happens every year. Not every trout stream can hold stocked fish all year.

This is only the 2nd year since 1993 that I can remember that we had trout die because of high temps & low water. Pine has a great holdover population of trout.

Brad,
My comment was a general observation about the die off of stocked trout (too many catch and release purists get upset at images such as these). The fact of the matter is....this is a common occurence on stocked trout streams across PA most summers when we have weather such as this (and last year). While I don't deny that this may be rare on Pine Creek in Potter Co.....Pine is a very long trout stream and downriver temps do indeed get very warm in summer. In the Cedar Run section, the mean daily temp recorded since the 1940s in July is 72 and daily highs over 80 are common. Only cold water tributaries allow for trout survival when water temps are this warm. Other streams that lack such coldwater influences will invariably see most stocked trout die by August. These fish would have been better suited to harvest by anglers on such waters IMO.

I'm sorry but I wasn't disagreeing with you in general. I don't have any scientific data but I think many of Pine Creek's trout survive in the deepest pools. Possibly they hunker down at the bottom where there might be springs seeping in to cool the water off. Back in October in the the late 70's I remember sitting along the Loyalsock down below Loyalsockville by the deep pool were the old bridge was. I saw all these bubbles coming to the surface & then scuba divers emerge from the depths! I asked , did you see any fish? They replied, yes, we saw walleye & brown trout.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

Yeah some of those pools on the Loyalsock are MAD deep! My brother in law lives in Dushore and he told me people scuba dive some of them. I couldn't believe it.

 

[troutbert]

Not that long ago the decision was made to rebuild the dam on Lyman Run. That warms the water quite a lot.

And the decision was made to leave the dam at Galeton. That warms the water and prevents migration further up on Pine and West Branch Pine to find thermal refuge.

Also, there are many stretches on upper Pine and tributaries where the vegetation is cut down right to the streambanks rather than allowing a forested riparian buffer. Less shade, warmer water.

 

[afishinado]

For anyone interested, here is a very detailed assessment and management plan prepared by the FBC for Pine Creek:

http://www.fish.state.pa.us/water/creeks/pine/pine-creek-plan.pdf

Interesting read.

 

[TimMurphy]

Dear afish,

Thanks for doing the legwork and posting this management plan. I'm only about 1/3 of the way through reading it, and I'll probably print it out and save it for future review.

From scope of the report and depth of it's detail it has become quite evident to me that despite the occasionally bashing received here on the board, the PA Fish and Boat Commission is comprised of dedicated hard working individuals who really are working in the best interests of the angler's of the State.

They are good people working with modest funding and we all should realize that even the Fish Commission can't make chicken salad out of chicken #OOPS#.

As far as I am concerned they absolutely do the best they can possibly do for us given the economic constraints under which they must work.

They need to be recognized and appreciated for that!

Regards,

Tim Murphy

 

[afishinado]

Tim,

No "legwork" done by me, the Management Plan is on the front page of the FBC site.

I agree, many of us Yeh-hoos think we know what's best to manage a certain stream or river because we catch a bunch of fish here or there or don't catch any at all. The FBC is often caught in conflicting currents trying to please all anglers, but in the end they do what's best, or they do the best they can.

 

[Fishidiot]

TimMurphy wrote:
Thanks for doing the legwork and posting this management plan. I'm only about 1/3 of the way through reading it, and I'll probably print it out and save it for future review.
From scope of the report and depth of it's detail it has become quite evident to me that despite the occasionally bashing received here on the board, the PA Fish and Boat Commission is comprised of dedicated hard working individuals who really are working in the best interests of the angler's of the State.
They are good people working with modest funding and we all should realize that even the Fish Commission can't make chicken salad out of chicken #OOPS#.
As far as I am concerned they absolutely do the best they can possibly do for us given the economic constraints under which they must work.
They need to be recognized and appreciated for that!
Regards,
Tim Murphy

This is absolutely spot-on and I couldn't have said it better myself. While we may all disagree from time to time with specific aspects of PFBC fisheries management - there's no question that they care about the resource and work sincerely and honestly to balance the needs/desires of a large and complicated constituency.

Regarding the Pine Creek Management Plan, I've looked it over carefully and think it's a good plan overall, including the part about year round harvest of trout in lower Pine. Also, if you look carefully, there is some eye opening info about water temps on Pine Creek....which should make obvious why occassional die offs of stocked trout are to be expected here.

 

[wgmiller]

Hopefully some critters find those dead fish and make use of them so they don't rot away.