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Re: Competition Fishers here?

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2007/3/28 11:30
From Cleona, Pa
Posts: 283
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I compete. Say what you want,you learn a ton about how to catch fish. All they folks that go to those are very knowledgable and you get better. The comradarie is great also. You learn all the different tactics and how all the little things and great attention to detail makes or breaks the day.

Sorry if it offends but i care about maximizing my time on the water

Posted on: 2013/7/17 21:47
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Re: Competition Fishers here?

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2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
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not putting it down, jkil. I think I'm a decent fisherman, and yeah, wherever I end up I do my best to catch fish. I just think there's more to be gained by getting good at choosing when to go where.

A typical weekend fishing trip, you wanna maximize the fishing. That's normal. You don't learn to do that better by saying "you have to be on this exact stretch of this exact stream between the hours of 1 and 3 p.m.". It's not about making the best of what you are given. It's about deciding what you want to be given.

Rather, the questions of

"where should we go in the morning, and how early should I be there?" "what stream will fish best at midday?" "Where do I want to be set up this evening for the hatches, and when do I have to get there by?" "What's the best time to stop and eat lunch/dinner or get a beer, without missing the hottest fishing?".

Among better fishermen, answering the above questions better than someone else will net more fish than being marginally better at dragging a nymph through a hole.

Posted on: 2013/7/17 22:03


Re: Competition Fishers here?

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2006/9/9 11:22
From New Castle, PA
Posts: 1625
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Quote:

pcray1231 wrote:
Among better fishermen, answering the above questions better than someone else will net more fish than being marginally better at dragging a nymph through a hole.


Marginally better, or close competition? Whether it is golf, bowling, archery, etc. competition usually results in close scores. Those who are marginally better on a consistent basis are usually the ones who come out on top. There's often a fine line between winners and losers, particularly in the highest levels of competition.

Winners find ways to be the guy who is marginally better on a regular basis. This extremely difficult to pull off. No one wins anything consistently by accident or luck.

As for picking your fishing destination, yes it takes some knowledge to find the best fishing spot, but I think that if that is part of the competition, then everyone is going to go someplace that they are extremely comfortable fishing. It would be like letting a golfer pick his home course to play then comparing it to scores from other golfers who played different courses. All that it proves is that you are good in a particular set of conditions, not good across ALL conditions and locations. When all participants are restricted to a certain stream, at a certain time, on a certain day, their abilities can be compared much more objectively. No arbitrary handicap scoring system would be needed for brookies for example. If the stream and conditions selected for the competition are well suited to your capabilities, then you got lucky. However, the chances of each stream being well matched to your ability decreases over a series of competitive events, that is unless you are actually very good and none present a challenge beyond your ability.

Kev

Posted on: 2013/7/17 22:26


Re: Competition Fishers here?

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2007/3/28 11:30
From Cleona, Pa
Posts: 283
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Since I have been competing and practicing that style of fishing I can go to any stream and be successful. Even he hardest streams. I don't plan on competing forever I'm just honing my skills. I was kind of hesitant at first, but after a couple I really enjoy them. And I learn so much when I go to penns, BFC, and spring I usually do well.i did we'll on the Davidson the other year when it was low and clear flowing a curly.

You learn about leaders sighters, tungsten beads, hot spots, dry dropper rigs, short and long line nymphing, all kinds of neat stuff. Which also keeps your mind active.

It's still all about having fun. And I have a lot more fun when I catch fish when I go out. I don't like getting the skunk.

Posted on: 2013/7/18 0:58
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Re: Competition Fishers here?

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2012/1/13 15:28
From Ferguson Twp.
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Sipe, I don't fish competition but check out Troutlegend forum.
A lot of comp guys there.

Posted on: 2013/7/18 5:52
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Re: Competition Fishers here?

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2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
Posts: 13415
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Quote:
All that it proves is that you are good in a particular set of conditions, not good across ALL conditions and locations.


But choosing your conditions is a skill of successful fly fishing, IMO. It's all fine and good to be able to achieve some success in tough conditions. I appreciate that, I really do.

But it's better to avoid tough conditions in the first place! Because while this stream is tough right now, another nearby stream is PERFECT. Being able to predict and adjust to this is indeed a measure of a good fisherman.

Quote:
When all participants are restricted to a certain stream, at a certain time, on a certain day, some of their abilities can be compared much more objectively.


Fixed it for ya. The skills of fishermen are all encompassing. They are not limited to who can drag a nymph through a hole marginally better on a consistent basis. They include who can set themselves up in the best situations on a consistent basis as well. What you are doing is eliminating half the skill of fly fishing, so that you can isolate the other half for better comparison.

I have no problem with that. All I am saying is that, personally, I am more interested in the other half of the skill set than the one you are measuring. I will follow comps, and learn a trick or two here and there. I have no issue with you guys who take part. I get it, I really do. But I have little desire to take part in the current comp set ups myself. And I think it's important to note that you are only comparing certain skills of being a good fishermen, while specifically excluding skills which are just as, if not more important to most fishermen.

What I did was describe a comp outline which excludes the skills you are currently measuring, and try to test only the other half. A devil's advocate thing.

If you want to include all skills, then it's just an open comp. Fish however, wherever, and whenever you want. And this would be a true test of overall angler skill, because this is the actual reality we all have on a regular fishing trip. And yes, if you can win consistently in such a setup, that makes you a good fishermen, all encompassing. The current comps only say that you are good in THIS particular situation, they do not measure your ability to chose your situation.

Posted on: 2013/7/18 7:48

Edited by pcray1231 on 2013/7/18 8:09:31


Re: Competition Fishers here?
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2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
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Interesting take (above), Pcray. Agreed. It would be impractical as a competition, but would be very interesting.

Posted on: 2013/7/18 8:00


Re: Competition Fishers here?

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2006/9/9 11:22
From New Castle, PA
Posts: 1625
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Quote:

pcray1231 wrote:
What I did was describe a comp outline which excludes the skills you are currently measuring, and try to test only the other half. A devil's advocate thing.


What you described is a competition in which avoiding your deficiencies is more important than being well rounded and adaptable to adverse situations.

Where is the ingenuity in overcoming unexpected situations in your competition? How does it reward the one or two guys in the field of competitors who have the patience and finesse to hook a few fish when and where no one else can? What about the guy fishing huge, weighted flies in high water? Your hypothetical competition largely removes adversity from the equation.

Forcing an angler to fish in a particular set of conditions may eliminate a certain aspect of skill, but allowing an angler to taylor the playing field to his own skills or lack of skills removes more skill than it adds to the competition.

I could start a golf league where you only play the holes you want to play when you want to play them, but I don't think it would find much credibility amongst the games best players, or anyone for that matter.

Kev

Posted on: 2013/7/18 8:58


Re: Competition Fishers here?

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2009/12/3 14:56
From Cato, NY
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Someday i would like to do the 2 fly tournament up at the Ausable or the Trout Power tournament on West Canada. These are not true FIPS Mouche comps, but more friendly fishing comps with less rules and more for fun.

Although not a fan of the FIPS mouche comps I don't mind others competing, however, I have witnessed first hand an angler with poor ettiquete when a comp angler pushed me out of their beat during a comp on ninemile.

Posted on: 2013/7/18 9:17


Re: Competition Fishers here?

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2011/3/6 0:34
From Dauphin
Posts: 632
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I say put one comp on the letort then we will see who the better fishermen is. Stocking comps are a joke. IMO compete on the toughest stream there is and you will see who's good and who isn't.

Posted on: 2013/7/18 9:57
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Re: Competition Fishers here?

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2008/8/24 20:26
From Mount Joy, PA
Posts: 2199
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Quote:

csoult wrote:
It may be relaxing for you and that's why you do it. It may be competitive for Shane and that why he does it. It may be that competition relaxes me and that's why I do it.

Intollerance of other peoples ways is a sad way to go through life, always worried about what the others are doing. Unless it hurts someone else.... Who cares.


Couldn't agree more. To each his own. It's the same as the whole spin versus fly debate. If we all did the same thing for the same reason, life would be pretty dull.

Posted on: 2013/7/18 10:02


Re: Competition Fishers here?

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2006/10/18 15:46
From Patterson twp, Pa (Beaver Falls)
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Good thing we took the OP's request of not turning this into a debate...

Posted on: 2013/7/18 10:13
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Re: Competition Fishers here?

Joined:
2011/7/6 12:30
From Ephrata, PA
Posts: 6367
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Quote:

IdratherbePhishing wrote:
I say put one comp on the letort then we will see who the better fishermen is. Stocking comps are a joke. IMO compete on the toughest stream there is and you will see who's good and who isn't.


I wouldn't do that to the Letort.

Posted on: 2013/7/18 10:13


Re: Competition Fishers here?

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2006/11/2 8:50
Posts: 6100
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Quote:

The_Sasquatch wrote:
Quote:

IdratherbePhishing wrote:
I say put one comp on the letort then we will see who the better fishermen is. Stocking comps are a joke. IMO compete on the toughest stream there is and you will see who's good and who isn't.


I wouldn't do that to the Letort.


Or Spring Creek. Or Fishing Creek. Or...

Posted on: 2013/7/18 10:27


Re: Competition Fishers here?

Joined:
2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
Posts: 13415
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PennKev,

1. I'm not saying I'm deficient in the skills you are aiming at. I'm not sure that I'm competition quality, but I do ok.

And yes, I do find those skills to be important. I'm not downplaying that. It's just that, to me, it's only a part of what it takes to be a good overall fishermen.

If 2 guys take a fishing trip to central PA, with the same home base. Guy #1 goes to Penns Creek all day, and nymphs up 4 during the afternoon, then catches 8 more during the evening hatch. Guy #2 goes elsewhere, and catches 5 brownies and 15 brookies during the day, then winds up at Penns Creek for the evening hatch and manages 5 more.

Who's the better fisherman? Side by side, when facing the same situation, guy #1 caught more fish. And this may be more or less repeatable. But, guy #2 caught more fish and overall had a better day, because he could predict what streams would fish best at various times of the day. This too may be more or less repeatable.

IMO, guy #2 is the better overall fisherman.

Yes, fishing is very much like a golf course where you can play any hole you want. That's the reality, is it not? When you plan your "for fun" fishing days, are you held to go to an exact spot at an exact time? Heck no.

You can choose anywhere you want. Within your alotted time, you can adjust times too. Say, go here at this time, go here at this time. And your decisions will play a HUGE role in your success on that day, will they not?

Hence, a large part of being a good fisherman is putting yourself in situations to succeed. Where you go may depend on the season, weather, hatches, flows, etc.

Being a good fisherman is 70% about managing a billion variables and putting yourself in the best situation to succeed. It's 30% about succeeding once you get there. These comps only measure the 30%.

Posted on: 2013/7/18 10:49



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