Register now on PaFlyFish.com! Login
HOME FORUM BLOG PHOTOS LINKS


Sponsors

Browsing this Thread:   1 Anonymous Users



« 1 2 3 4 (5) 6 7 8 ... 21 »


Re: Class A Wild Trout, Wilderness & WBT Enhancement Streams

Joined:
2006/9/10 21:53
From Greensburg, PA
Posts: 13624
Offline
Quote:

5footfenwick wrote:

also I am in no way advocating this, but does anyone think that the WBTE regs with their no kill native brookie, yet open season on wild brown, allows for the mind set that they want the Browns removed??????? just curious~
~ME


Yes, and I don't have a problem with that....I think that's why they call it a Brook trout enhancement and not a wild trout enhancement

Posted on: 2009/3/10 23:19


Re: Class A Wild Trout, Wilderness & WBT Enhancement Streams

Joined:
2006/12/13 9:28
From Other side of the tracks
Posts: 18500
Offline
Quote:

salvelinusfontinalis wrote:

I agree that promoting them is they way to go. It would be nice in the future if we could freely discuss these streams to anyone.



Sal, I'm not singling you out on this. That sentiment is common. You just put it into words that I found easy to use.

I may be taking this out of context (or not), but i disagree with that sentiment. No way should we advertise or freely discuss all these streams to anyone. I honestly don't see the necessity. Besides, they are already advertised or at least published by the PF&BC and that should be enough. They already get significant protection from the EPA and DCNR ad EV, CWF, or whatever. Let people start fishing for the stocked trout, and then learn about wild trout on their own or through their fishing buddies.

I've got several reasons why I think it is wrong to spoon feed and we have been through them all in the past. And yes, a lot of them are selfish reasons. In some ways it boils down to this. I found a lot of what I call good native streams on my own without the help of the internet. Why should I spoon feed that info. Heck, over half the fun was the hunt. If I felt that spoon feeding was good for a trout population, then of course i would agree. but I've seen nothing to support that.

And face it. A lot of the people who want to see more spoon feeding are doing that for selfish reasons as well.

I don't want to be spoon fed, therefore don't spoon feed. It is as simple as that.

I don't have a problem with enhancement programs and special regs to increase interest in a few wild streams. In my opinion, this is a more effective way to get people interested anyway. But advertising them all??? I don't see the point?

Most of these streams will be just fine if we leave them alone.

Attach file:



jpg  spoon.JPG (33.62 KB)
348_49b78fc355c89.jpg 400X400 px

Posted on: 2009/3/11 6:17
_________________
There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance." -Henry David Thoreau--


Re: Class A Wild Trout, Wilderness & WBT Enhancement Streams

Joined:
2006/12/13 9:28
From Other side of the tracks
Posts: 18500
Offline
Quote:

tomgamber wrote:
Quote:

5footfenwick wrote:

also I am in no way advocating this, but does anyone think that the WBTE regs with their no kill native brookie, yet open season on wild brown, allows for the mind set that they want the Browns removed??????? just curious~
~ME


Yes, and I don't have a problem with that....I think that's why they call it a Brook trout enhancement and not a wild trout enhancement


I agree. It does allow for that mindset and i also have no problem with that. However, I think you will find that most people throw them all back.

Posted on: 2009/3/11 6:20
_________________
There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance." -Henry David Thoreau--


Re: Class A Wild Trout, Wilderness & WBT Enhancement Streams

Joined:
2006/9/9 17:18
From lancaster county
Posts: 6448
Offline
i meant in the far future when peoples attitudes and practices change towards the fisheries.

but i understand what you mean. I get great pleasure from finding them on my own.

Posted on: 2009/3/11 6:29
_________________
http://cvtu.homestead.com/





Re: Class A Wild Trout, Wilderness & WBT Enhancement Streams

Joined:
2006/11/2 8:50
Posts: 6180
Offline
If you are interested in learning about usage and harvest on brook trout streams, and other non-stocked, general regs, wild trout streams, go and fish those types of streams on opening day.

You can "stream-hop", fishing a stream for a couple hours, than fishing another, etc. You can also learn a lot by driving along the streams where you can spot anglers and their vehicles from the road.

If you do check this out this opening day, report back what you find on the message board.

Posted on: 2009/3/11 8:32


Re: Class A Wild Trout, Wilderness & WBT Enhancement Streams

Joined:
2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
Posts: 13460
Offline
troutbert,

I do that every year. I typically spend the first few hours of the day tossing live minnies in a big, stocked freestoner, more tradition and just to spend time with my dad and brother (both bait fishermen). I can just about guarantee that we don't see anyone keep a single fish, though last year someone upset that trend and stringered a golden rainbow. But it will be well before lunch when I start stream hopping on native brookie streams with the fly rod in hand.

Typically, I find nobody fishing the native brookie streams. If I do, they are typically either fly fishermen or the better type of bait fishermen, and not keeping anything. The exceptions, and this is important, are the streams that are both stocked and have wild trout. I have found, on opening day, the worst type of fishermen are the ones found on small, stocked streams.

These streams are packed with meat hunters. And I do see wild brookies on stringers, or worse, laying on the bank dead. When we talk about stocking over wild fish and the damage it does, I'm sure the competition for food and cover has some merit, but I think this is a factor as well.

At least thats my experiences, I spend the first weekend in NW PA each year.

Posted on: 2009/3/11 8:59


Re: Class A Wild Trout, Wilderness & WBT Enhancement Streams

Joined:
2009/2/19 19:59
From Mont Co, Pa
Posts: 2029
Offline
I just want to clear the air a little bit by saying that in my initial thread post I mentioned that all tackle was legal on these stream types (classifications). I wasn't suggesting that these should be fly fishing only streams, I simply implied that bait fishing was apt to do more harm because of the likelyhood of deep hooking, trebble hooks, ect. Not to mean they should be excluded as legal equipment. Someone made mention of me "bashing" bait fishermen, which I was not doing.

Posted on: 2009/3/11 10:20
_________________
Protect the resource, let them go!


Re: Class A Wild Trout, Wilderness & WBT Enhancement Streams

Joined:
2006/9/10 21:53
From Greensburg, PA
Posts: 13624
Offline
Quote:

FarmerDave wrote:
Quote:

tomgamber wrote:
Quote:

5footfenwick wrote:

also I am in no way advocating this, but does anyone think that the WBTE regs with their no kill native brookie, yet open season on wild brown, allows for the mind set that they want the Browns removed??????? just curious~
~ME


Yes, and I don't have a problem with that....I think that's why they call it a Brook trout enhancement and not a wild trout enhancement


I agree. It does allow for that mindset and i also have no problem with that. However, I think you will find that most people throw them all back.


Yes, they do...but those inclined to harvest fish have an option that pleases those who are all gung ho about preserving brook trout populations. And while food supply and habitat will dictate size for the most part, the browns usually grow larger and that works in favor of both mindsets.

Posted on: 2009/3/11 10:25


Re: Class A Wild Trout, Wilderness & WBT Enhancement Streams

Joined:
2006/12/13 9:28
From Other side of the tracks
Posts: 18500
Offline
Quote:


Yes, they do...but those inclined to harvest fish have an option that pleases those who are all gung ho about preserving brook trout populations. And while food supply and habitat will dictate size for the most part, the browns usually grow larger and that works in favor of both mindsets.


Exactly.

I can tell you this. If I ever fish any of those, I will harvest brown trout. The regs shouldn't just promote harvesting the browns in BTE streams, it should encourage it. Assuming there are significant numbers of browns... If the browns are not being harvested, the regulations aren't proving much.

Posted on: 2009/3/11 10:37
_________________
There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance." -Henry David Thoreau--


Re: Class A Wild Trout, Wilderness & WBT Enhancement Streams

Joined:
2008/6/25 9:41
From Pgh
Posts: 1237
Offline
I work in the advertising business. I have for 20 plus years. I've made a decent living at it for one simple reason. Advertising works. Promote a product, service or in this case, a stream, and the people will buy it, use it and fish it.

Case in point. Camp Run in Westmoreland County. I used to fish it years before it officially became a Brook Trout Enhancement stream. I always did well. The brookies were always very cooperative. Never kept the fish. And RARELY saw another angler.

Then the PFBC promoted it. Things changed. The fish started to become selective at times. I would see anglers on every trip. And I simply quit stopping there to fish because it wasn't worth it. The quality of the experience dropped. Obviously, the fish were still there. But I used to go to Camp Run as a "break" from other hammered waters where the fishing was more "challenging." I could always count on Camp Run to boost my ego on low fish days. Not anymore.

I suppose the promotion of certain streams as "special" is a good thing overall. But selfishly I get ticked when my personal secret fishing spots get trampled on by the masses.

Posted on: 2009/3/11 10:51
_________________
"I used to like fishing because I thought it had some larger significance. Now I like fishing because it's the one thing I can think of that probably doesn't." --John Gierach


Re: Class A Wild Trout, Wilderness & WBT Enhancement Streams

Joined:
2009/2/19 19:59
From Mont Co, Pa
Posts: 2029
Offline
Quote:

Mike wrote:

As for the West Branch of Fishing Creek is concerned, going back as far as the late 1970's I have known it as a stream with acid precipitation problems (through general conversations with its fisheries managers and following our own fishing trips to the stream). The precip problems have a history of negatively affecting its trout populaiton.

The West Branch of Fishing Creek (Class A Wild Trout Stream), which I started fishing in 2002, is only influenced by what goes on upstream of it's mouth, which is it's headwaters that are on nothing but SGL's 13. Acidity doesn't travel upstream. There's nothing going on, and there has been nothing going on up in those Game Lands to effect the acidity of that section of stream.

Now, when I started fishing this stretch of stream in '02, starting 2 miles upstream of the SGL gate in Emmons, where I knew I was up and away from any stocked portion of this stream, up to and past Hemlock Run, I was routinely catching 15-20 legal (I never counted non legals) wild/native trout per trip. Some real nice ones too, I might add! I was releasing all of them.
Since that time, each year I have watched the fishing get progressively worse. My fish numbers kept falling, but the sheer beauty of that stream kept me comming back never the less. Now again, keep in mind, there's nothing going on up in those Game Lands (mining/acid) or else the fishing wouldn't have been what it was in the beginning of the 2000's. So, the big question that I pose is where did all of the native/wild trout go? I'm all ears.

Posted on: 2009/3/11 11:02
_________________
Protect the resource, let them go!


Re: Class A Wild Trout, Wilderness & WBT Enhancement Streams
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/9 9:29
From Monessen, PA
Posts: 22320
Online
Maybe you have educated the trout by fishing it so often over the past 7 years. Have you considered issues related to water quantity? The water looks pretty low in your avatar. Have you ever noticed stream biologist reports that show cyclical fluctuations in trout populations in streams? Sometimes rises and falls of population are absolutely normal. Unless you were to analyze all these details and use a more accurate sampling technique than you fly rod, I can't see how any firm conclusion can be reached about whether the populations have even varied from year-to-year, let alone varied for any particular reason.

Posted on: 2009/3/11 11:11
_________________
Peace, Tony


Re: Class A Wild Trout, Wilderness & WBT Enhancement Streams

Joined:
2007/1/2 11:55
From Bozeman
Posts: 19931
Offline
Quote:

wildtrout2 wrote:
So, the big question that I pose is where did all of the native/wild trout go? I'm all ears.


Beyond jack's point about the cyclical nature of fish populations, I'm unconvinced that they went anywhere. Your results have no statistical significance whatsoever.

Posted on: 2009/3/11 11:21


Re: Class A Wild Trout, Wilderness & WBT Enhancement Streams

Joined:
2007/1/2 11:55
From Bozeman
Posts: 19931
Offline
Could it be herons??

Posted on: 2009/3/11 11:25


Re: Class A Wild Trout, Wilderness & WBT Enhancement Streams

Joined:
2009/2/19 19:59
From Mont Co, Pa
Posts: 2029
Offline
Quote:

JackM wrote:
Maybe you have educated the trout by fishing it so often over the past 7 years. Have you considered issues related to water quantity? The water looks pretty low in your avatar. Have you ever noticed stream biologist reports that show cyclical fluctuations in trout populations in streams? Sometimes rises and falls of population are absolutely normal. Unless you were to analyze all these details and use a more accurate sampling technique than you fly rod, I can't see how any firm conclusion can be reached about whether the populations have even varied from year-to-year, let alone varied for any particular reason.

Educated them? Doubtful. If that was the case I wouldn't have caught the numbers I did in the first several years. I have fished this stream at various times of the year with various water levels during this span of time. I'd love to be able to say stream level was the culprit here, but I honestly don't believe this, much less acidity to be the case. I had in the past, very good luck catching these fish even with very low water levels in July and August.

Posted on: 2009/3/11 11:30
_________________
Protect the resource, let them go!



« 1 2 3 4 (5) 6 7 8 ... 21 »



You can view topic.
You cannot start a new topic.
You cannot reply to posts.
You cannot edit your posts.
You cannot delete your posts.
You cannot add new polls.
You cannot vote in polls.
You cannot attach files to posts.
You cannot post without approval.

[Advanced Search]





Site Content
Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
Stay Connected

twitterfeed.com facebook instagram RSS Feed

Sponsors
Polls
Do you keep a fishing journal?
Yes 52% (85)
No 47% (78)
_PL_TOTALVOTES
The poll closed at 2014/8/22 12:38
2 Comments





Copyright 2014 by PaFlyFish.com | Privacy Policy| Provided by Kile Media Group | Design by 7dana.com