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Re: Catch and Release?

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2006/11/2 8:50
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I look at harvest in terms of populations. That is the original reason for C&R. Early advocates like Lee Wullf, the early TU guys etc. pushed C&R and limiting harvest because of concern about populations getting hammered down. Not because of any PETA type issues or personal issues about killing fish. Or because they didn't like the taste of fish!

Bluegill populations are pretty robust so harvesting them is fine, as long as it's not overdone.

Wild trout populations are quite vulnerable to overharvest. It doesn't take much harvest to significantly alter the population of a wild trout stream.

So I kill and eat panfish, but I don't kill wild trout.

Posted on: 2007/3/12 9:53


Re: Catch and Release?
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Quote:

Bamboozle wrote:

Pad:

You are reading something into my question that ISN'T there? I have ABSOLUTELY nothing but respect for hunters and I would fight for their rights as hard as mine as a non hunter. I watch Call of the Wild and have even sent letters of support to Ted Nugent. Am I ignorant about hunting, absolutely that's why I asked the question.

I was just wondering why harvest is considered so taboo among some fly fishermen while hunting wasn't. Most responders mentioned eating which to me, explains it all.

I also want to add to those that have a problem with harvest; I have a friend who used to harvest when I had my holier than thou attitude about C&R. Many years later he admitted to me that when he USED to keep a few; cash was tight and those trout meant dinner to him a few days a week. I also have an older friend that told me that his father's trapping, hunting & fishing kept his family in meat during the Depression. So I guess what I'm getting at here is not everybody with a stringer of fish can afford to buy it from the supermarket.


Well, I am glad to hear that. And if I over-reacted, I apologize.

I think C&R is taboo while fishing, and not while hunting because the purpose of hunting is to harvest/kill an animal. If it were not, then you would call it photography or stalking or walking in the woods or something else. The sale of hunting licenses is tied to game population management goals.

But fishing does not require the taking of a fish, and the sale of fishing licenses is not tied to population goals. It's not even tied to stocking levels or anything else. I've heard several accounts of large sections of streams being fished out by anglers. Voluntarilly limited one's harvest is the only way to ensure that good fishing opportunities are preserved for others.

Posted on: 2007/3/12 12:04
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Padraic
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Re: Catch and Release?

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2006/12/13 9:28
From Other side of the tracks
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I didn't have time to read all the responses, but will add mine anyway. First let me say that hunting and fishing are apples to oranges. With hunting, harvesting of animals is a management tool. With fishing, no harvest is a management tool. Yes, they both have their roots in feeding the family, but in today's world,they are not the same.

To answer your question:

I haven't kept a wild trout in years except for the occasional one that is hooked deep. Doesn't happen very often, but when it does, I keep them. I'm not real fond of eating trout, but my wife is. That said, I don't have a problem with keeping a few as long as they are eaten. I do have a problem with people keeping them just for the sake of keeping them. I have even more of a problem with people who fill their freezer and then toss them all out then next year all freezer burnt so they can make room for the new ones.

I hunt. With the exception of varmints, I only shoot what I intend to eat. I even practice C&R hunting quite a bit. In other words, I often hunt, but don't shoot, and sometimes I don't even take a gun along. If I have venison in the freezer, I don't shoot another, but I will still hunt. for some reason the deer seem to know that. Had an 8 point under my tree stand for a good 15 minutes a couple years ago. that was kinda neat. He stood broad side exactly where I had earlier set up my target for practice (bow season). Last year I passed up several deer within 30 yards in both gun and bow season. I even had one standing broad side and looking the other way at 12 feet during the gun season.

Some people have said that isn't the same thing. They say that there are too many variables and I don't really know if I would have actually bagged a deer. I say I don't care. I don't feel a need to shoot an animal just to prove to someone else that I can. To me there is more to hunting than just killing.

By the way, the last deer I actually shot?? I hit it exactly where I was aiming (the right eye with a 12 gauge slug). Of course it was only about 30 feet away.

Posted on: 2007/3/12 13:07


Re: Catch and Release?

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2006/12/13 9:28
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Quote:

troutbert wrote:


Bluegill populations are pretty robust so harvesting them is fine, as long as it's not overdone.



Troutbert, that would be really hard to do.

Posted on: 2007/3/12 13:13


Re: Catch and Release?

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Quote:

Padraic wrote:
I've never kept a trout I caught. I've thought about it, but I just don't feel like it. I suppose when I look at all the money I spent on gear to go fishing, turning that investment into a way to get food would be laughable. Might as well fill up on belugia caviar for as much as a a bargain as a trout would be.



You know Pad, the same could be said about hunting. Everyone who claims they hunt to feed their family should first figure out what it costs them a pound figuring in all expenses. Beef is usually much cheaper, and you don't have to field dress a pot roast.

Before somone jumps down my throat claiming they can hunt cheaply, I already know that it can be done. I do it myself, but I hunt on my own land (no travel required), don't need a license (Ohio), deer are bigger here, guns last forever if you take care of them, and I butcher my own (because i am a cheapskate). Venison is actually cheaper than beef for me, but only because i haven't started raising my own beef yet.

When I was a kid, we used to do it cheaply too. although we had to actually buy licenses, we made up for it by making sure all tags were used at least once. OK, I'm joking. In all honesty, we rarely filled out a tag.

Posted on: 2007/3/12 13:46


Re: Catch and Release?
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2006/9/9 9:29
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Poacher Davey.

Posted on: 2007/3/12 14:07
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Re: Catch and Release?

Joined:
2006/9/10 21:53
From Greensburg, PA
Posts: 13623
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Quote:

FarmerDave wrote:
Quote:

troutbert wrote:


Bluegill populations are pretty robust so harvesting them is fine, as long as it's not overdone.



Troutbert, that would be really hard to do.


Agreed. For the most part, if you find a pond with a whole lot of small 'gills it because its overpopulated and they've stunted. Just not enough food to support great numbers or not enough predators to keep the population at an equal level with the food. That pond needs a predator. When you find one with lots of big ones, keeping some to eat is actually good to keep it from being over populated. Ponds with just a few big ones are ones you shouldn't keep too many from. Remember, bluegills are able to spawn just about anywhere. And if you let them they will.

Which reminds me of an interesting experiment that was going on in Idaho just before I left. Back in the 60s someone decided they had all these great cold water mtn lakes with no fish. They stocked them with brookies. Well, due to the make-up of those kinds of lake bottoms, the brookies were able to spawn in the gravely shallows rather than have to search for a creek. They quickly overpopulated and central Idaho is filled with many lakes with thousands of brookies the in the 4inch range. Here was the experiment: In a couple of those lakes they decided to stock a natural predator of brookies, the atlantic salmon. Deadwood reservoir soon had a very large and fat population of atlantic salmon for a while. Not sure what ever became of that. Don't know if they were able to reproduce or if they were all caught or if they also fed on the native Kokanee in the lake, as well, or if the brookies were able to grow any bigger with the thinning of the herd. I'll have to call my buddy and ask. But I think its interesting how they can create a problem and then try to fix it by creating another one and so on...

Posted on: 2007/3/12 15:05


Re: Catch and Release?

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2007/2/25 3:56
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I hunt, but only kill what I (or my family) eat, as seems the general consensus. I think keeping an occasional fish is good management as well, especially bass in ponds. I however rarely keep trout in PA. The little ones are too bony and the big boys are too rare. I will however keep a few from the WNY tribs in the fall.

Posted on: 2007/3/12 16:37


Re: Catch and Release?

Joined:
2006/9/18 8:28
From Attitudinally, one mile south of Lake LeBoeuf
Posts: 853
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1) I quit hunting in 1977. It was cutting into my fishing time. The rest of the guys in my family all still hunt and I hunted for about 15 years. Some still trap. I encourage both. It's given me a closet full of muskrat hides, mink tails, wood duck feathers and deer hide. While I support the RKBA, I have nothing but distain for the beady-eyed, sweaty-lip paranoic turn much of the gun culture has taken since I gave up the shooting sports. So, I'm kinda glad I'm away from it.

2) When I'm around people and discussing the issue, I tell them I practice C&R to demonstrate that I have reached the 4th and final plane of fly fishing wisdom..:) But the truth is, I practice C&R because: A) wild trout have enough enemies from bulldozers to developers to kingfishers to Republicans (just kidding..sorta). They don't need me to be their enemy too. However, as T-Bert said; it's a subjective thing. Some trout pops are better able to sustain a certain level of harvest than others. B) Compared to bluegills, crappie and perch; trout (even wild trout) taste like mud to me. C) Carrying, storing, etc. dead fish is a pain in the gear box. I like to fish all day and catch lots of fish. Having to deal with dead fish is an impediment to this. D) Sort of ties in with A: Every wild trout alive and well is a poke in the eye to the people who spend their days (indirectly) trying to eliminate them by building malls and riding four wheelers through the creek, etc. I like that...

So, that's why.

Posted on: 2007/3/12 17:14


Re: Catch and Release?

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2006/9/9 17:18
From lancaster county
Posts: 6433
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i practice c&r. like Mkern though i dont like the taste of most fish.
but it is not just that. there was an old pond along time ago the me and a friend stocked with smallies and crappie. there were only sunfish and largemouth in it before. we where just kids then. this one family used to fish the pond. they were poor and used the fish for food. i had no problem with that except they would keep the fish out of season and also overlimit on fish. today the smallies and crappies are gone. its a shame. the largemouth have survived and are still in there. no one fishes the pond today but me and my old friend.
i dont belive it is wrong to keep trout. on streams that are stocked that is why they are there. if i gill a trout i keep it and try to give it away. this has only happened once since i have been flyfishing. nothing wrong with following regulations. the law is the law. i belive that it isnt moral to keep wild trout while it is not wrong to do so. i dont look down on others that do, as long as they dont look down on my belifes.(and my heavy drinking )
so i say if you want to eat a trout after a day of fishing......have a good dinner. just follow the regs of the stream and your ok in my book

Posted on: 2007/3/12 17:53
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Re: Catch and Release?
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2006/9/9 17:32
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I enjoy eating fish but only keep trout that are stockies in streams managed primarily as put and take. I don't kill wild trout. Perhaps on a remote camping trip out West I might see fit to make a few exceptions and keep some wild fish but at least here in PA I release wild ones. I had the great good luck yesterday to catch a 22" wild brown trout. I suppose he was probably five to seven years old - it would be heartbreaking to see someone keep him. Fortunately he lives in catch and release water that doesn't see too much poaching even though open to the public. I also prefer to release bass, especially bigger ones. I will keep a stringer of sunfish from time to time and I like catfish too. Like Tim, I'll keep legal flounders any chance I get. I prefer to release striped bass in the ocean and muskies too. I won't kill sharks. Hhmmm...guess I'm not too consistent. I do hunt but rarely have any luck as I'm too busy fishing to devote the time to hunting with a purpose. My last buck was bagged in 1987. Like many of you, I'll only hunt what I care to eat. No varmints....Unless you can get me a really good pasta recipe for coyote meat.

Posted on: 2007/3/12 22:20


Re: Catch and Release?

Joined:
2007/1/22 13:49
From Lehigh Valley, PA
Posts: 411
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Stocking salmon to deal with stocked brookies? Sounds like the Simpsons.


Skinner: Well, I was wrong. The lizards are a godsend.

Lisa: But isn't that a bit short-sighted? What happens when we're overrun by lizards?

Skinner: No problem. We simply release wave after wave of Chinese needle snakes. They'll wipe out the lizards.

Lisa: But aren't the snakes even worse?

Skinner: Yes, but we're prepared for that. We've lined up a fabulous type of gorilla that thrives on snake meat.

Lisa: But then we're stuck with gorillas!

Skinner: No, that's the beautiful part. When wintertime rolls around, the gorillas simply freeze to death.

-- The Cirrrrcle of Liiiiiife ...

Posted on: 2007/3/13 9:51
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