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Re: CDC Trico Comparadun

Joined:
2006/9/11 13:33
From Lehigh Valley
Posts: 3352
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John,

It's pretty impressive that you can choose to only catch 10” fish when fishing size 24 flies.

Larger, sometimes MUCH larger fish are often taken when fishing tricos – yes, even on the Little Lehigh. Using ultralight tippet material to fight fish that are best fought with heavier tippet material is a personal decision, but since there are other (better) alternatives to using such light tippet, the decision comes down to the respect each of us has for the resource.

Here on PAFF, there are a lot of beginner flyfishers, and they look to the more experienced guys to show them the ropes, so to speak. These beginners, or less experienced fishermen, likely don't have the fish fighting experience learned over many years by the old timers. They don't know how much pressure they can apply to a fish to land it as quickly as possible without overstressing it, and this problem gets compounded by higher water temperatures sometimes found during trico hatches.

Veteran fishermen here advocate the use of stream thermometers to avoid fishing during times of high thermal stress to trout. Again, this teaches respect for the resource. Setting a good example is a wise thing to do, IMO.

I have no doubt that you've learned to play a fish quickly on light tippet in your 40 years of experience, and can guess pretty accurately when a fight has gone on too long for the fish's chance of survival to be seriously compromised. Experience has taught you when it's time to break off a fish to avoid unnecessary harm. But still, even the most experienced fisherman can only guess as to when that point occurs.

Using a stream thermometer, and not using ultralight tippet material to avoid overstressing the fish are things advocated by nearly all of the experienced fishermen here. Choosing to do otherwise is simply showing a lack of respect to the resource. If catching those 10” fish is that important to you, that's a decision only you can make. Each of us has our own limits as to what we're willing to do to catch fish.

As for Varivas tippet material, they do NOT follow the “X” system of tippet diameter. Their 9X tippet is actually between 7X and 8X in diameter. If they followed the “X” system that is the industry standard, how do they sell 11X tippet? The diameter would be zero if you follow the “X” system. What about 12X? The answer is simple – they're misleading fishermen. Choosing to go “down” to 9X from everyone else's 8X is actually making a step up in tippet diameter. I'm pretty sure Varivas is the only tippet manufacturer that is currently selling 9X. So if you go “down” to 9X from 8X, then that makes you a “chump for clever marketing”, plain and simple.

Following your logic of using the lightest tippet available to fish sz 24 flies, then why not use 12X Varivas? At what point does using this ridiculously light tippet seem like a bad idea to you? 10X? 11X? 12X? And why?

Posted on: 2013/7/5 17:26
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Re: CDC Trico Comparadun

Joined:
2006/9/11 13:33
From Lehigh Valley
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The Sikh religion was founded by Guru Nanak. The origins of Sikhism lie in the teachings of Guru Nanak and his successors. The essence of Sikh teaching is summed up by Nanak in these words: "Realization of Truth is higher than all else. Higher still is truthful living".


Hmmmmm......

Posted on: 2013/7/5 17:49
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Re: CDC Trico Comparadun

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2007/6/9 10:11
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heritage I think we ought to set a good example for younger fisherman by treating each other with respect. ive lost or broken a dozen thermometers and haven't killed a trout since 1961. your preachy, Yup Fox, let's tune up another nubie tone, is really over the top. look at the length of your posts. do I get continuing education credits for reading them?

Posted on: 2013/7/5 18:02


Re: CDC Trico Comparadun

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2010/1/28 14:17
From Abington
Posts: 619
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Don't be rediculous Gary. The Sikh virgins only yield a 5x at best. For 9 x you need Suffi virgins.

Quote:

gfen wrote:

I use the hair of virgin Sikh girls for my tippet. You'll find that being of the Sikhs they tend towards long, lusterous hair, and its as strong-willed and tough as their warrior culture raises 'em right.

The virgin part? That just adds mystique to the whole thing. Sometimes its the intangible magic, really.

Posted on: 2013/7/5 19:02
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Re: CDC Trico Comparadun
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2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
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Foremost is what Heritage Ed stated about not harming the fish.

To add, I often see FFers, especially beginners, thinking the lighter the tippet the better (less visibility and/or less drag). They often use it as a crutch when proper casting and mending with proper leader design is what they should strive for, instead tying on lighter and lighter tippets. They usually end up with broken tippet and broken knots on fish or on the bottom (when nymphing) as well as twisted tippets trying to cast flies way too big for their light tippet. Not to mention inaccurate casts because of their inability to turn over their fly with a light tippet.

This subject comes up every summer. Groundhog Day








Posted on: 2013/7/6 7:20


Re: CDC Trico Comparadun

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2007/6/9 10:11
Posts: 218
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the post was about a trico pattern that morphed into a discussion on tippets if I recall. how it got taken into the lecture suited for youth night at TU is beyond me. who's stressing fish in spring fed creeks in the Leigh valley? the professorial tone belongs in the beginners forum. if there's 12x bring it on. why 6x? why not 5x?

Posted on: 2013/7/6 10:11


Re: CDC Trico Comparadun

Joined:
2011/6/29 9:38
From Philadelphia
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John, as someone who was in this position last year, (see Afishinado’s post) let me see if I can mitigate or at least explain H-A’s tone. I was the focus of his ire last year because I stated that I used 9X on a certain pool on a certain stream. I took offense to the comments by both guys who have answered you. What they both explained to me was that we just don’t want newbies to start thinking lighter tippet is the way to better fishing. For you and me, 9X has its place although not for me any longer. I’m honestly tired of the way 7X tippet and lower curls up so easy after either catching fish or stinging them and having the hook shoot back at me. I saw the light two weeks ago when I watched fish after fish refuse my Trico only to have those same fish take that same fly on that same tippet once I got the proper drift.

To get to my point (often not my strong suit), very light tippet and advocating the use of it is simply a “hot bottom” issue for a few well respected members on this forum. My major gripe last year, much as is yours this year, was the tone of the posts. After private conversations with both Afishinado and H-A, we worked things out and we all realize where we stand. I know H-A meant no disrespect to your years of experience on the water and just try to understand how we all react (which is the key word) when our hot button is pressed. Maybe I made the first mistake in posting anything about your post so if my comment stirred the pot, I apologize to both you and H-A.

Tight lines to all!

Posted on: 2013/7/6 11:51


Re: CDC Trico Comparadun

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2007/6/9 10:11
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Fox, I posted here years ago before Pad's accident. I checked out over just this sort of thing. talk tippet and get a philosophy lesson from one of the site heavies. This seems to be the way of all sites; be they woodworking, boat building.....whatever. I'm 65 and not interested in some guys opinions about preserving the resource. Profiling we used to call it. Tight lines.

Posted on: 2013/7/6 13:30


Re: CDC Trico Comparadun

Joined:
2007/4/8 20:43
From SEPA
Posts: 11425
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You guys talk about tippet on woodworking forums, too?


Posted on: 2013/7/8 1:25
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And why not?


Re: CDC Trico Comparadun

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2007/6/9 10:11
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no, but if you ask what's a good table saw, you'll get a lecture about how valuable your fingers are so you sould buy a $5,000 SAWSTOP, like I got five grand sitting around. don't ask what's a good low angle block plane........it's like going to Harvard. one lecture after another.

Posted on: 2013/7/8 14:59


Re: CDC Trico Comparadun

Joined:
2006/9/9 17:18
From lancaster county
Posts: 6488
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To each his own.

I fish gigantic flies with 1 and 2X and crush fish. ;)

Posted on: 2013/7/8 17:18
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Re: CDC Trico Comparadun
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2006/9/9 9:29
From Monessen, PA
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John, what's with the anger? H-A has significant credibility as a good person and knowledgable angler. You can disagree without being personal. This goes for anyone else tempted to keep up personal attacks.

Posted on: 2013/7/8 19:14
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Re: CDC Trico Comparadun

Joined:
2011/6/29 9:38
From Philadelphia
Posts: 2145
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Guys, I will say that I've had really good success with this pattern and very interested in anyone's feedback that tried the pattern to see how they are making out using it.

Posted on: 2013/7/8 20:13


Re: CDC Trico Comparadun

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Jack, get objective. there's no anger here. I posted on tippet and get a lecture. now, you all concede that to HA but I don't. he has wisely absented himself or had you noticed? he's your guy that's fine. but again read the posts and tell me that that know it all high handed tone was called for. You don't consider that pedantic condecendening tone personal? I do. I say, cool down and read the posts and you'll agree that HA was way out of line. I supervised people for fourty years but I never backed someone's mistake. here's our opportunity to say, you know, this guys right....my guy was wrong......don't let this opportunity slip by. can we start to call me JP?

Posted on: 2013/7/8 20:15


Re: CDC Trico Comparadun

Joined:
2011/6/29 9:38
From Philadelphia
Posts: 2145
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JP, H-A has been quiet because I asked him to not reply and move this further into an area where it was never meant to be. He has his opinion and you have yours as we all have our own. Please let it go now and if you have feedback on the pattern I posted, I'd love to hear it.

Tight lines!

Posted on: 2013/7/8 20:20



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