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Re: Big native!

Joined:
2010/5/1 9:10
From NE OH
Posts: 1292
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Quote:

Dcap240 wrote:
The right food source and or they become meat eaters and start eating other minnows...


Char in general are aggressive carnivores, and brook trout are no exception. The mainstay of their diet is other fish. They certainly do eat aquatic insects, but they don't have those giant mouths to slurp nymphs and mayflies. I've seen PA brookies attack frogs as they jumped into the stream While I like catching brookies on dry flies, for the most part, I catch them on streamers. I've caught Arctic Char in AK swinging huge streamers and on deer hair mice. Labrador brookies are routinely caught on mouse patterns. And remember, esp in PA freestone streams, native brookies are pure opportunists. They can't rely on hatches because the streams are too small to sustain large enough hatches to support the brookie population. Brookies will attack anything that comes by or hits the water. They are meat eaters by nature.

Posted on: 2013/7/28 15:44
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"You don't need 7x. All right, 7x...now you're just being stupid. That's ridiculous. You know what else...throw away the 6x, because that's garbage too." -Hank Patterson


Re: Big native!

Joined:
2011/3/8 19:04
From York, PA
Posts: 369
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I have a wildlife and fisheries degree and spent a deal of time electro fishing on small WV brookie streams. We caught a 7" trout that had a 3 inch shrew in his mouth.

Posted on: 2013/7/28 16:05


Re: Big native!

Joined:
2010/5/1 9:10
From NE OH
Posts: 1292
Online
I've been itching for a week to share this story. This is a good place. My buddy and I were fishing a brown trout stream last week that has reports of 29 & 30" browns every year. We were standing across from a large wood pile. A sparrow landed on an upper branch and worked it's way down to a branch that was 1/2 submerged in the water. The sparrow dips down to drink and BOOM...a big brown exploded on the thing. It must have seen him coming because the sparrow escaped, but it was pretty awesome to see. Now you know why Pat Cohen spins up those awesome deer hair sparrows.

I know, not a brook trout...but brookies are just as voracious.

Posted on: 2013/7/28 17:07
_________________
"You don't need 7x. All right, 7x...now you're just being stupid. That's ridiculous. You know what else...throw away the 6x, because that's garbage too." -Hank Patterson


Re: Big native!

Joined:
2010/8/24 20:13
From Bucks County
Posts: 300
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I've caught a brookie on a large foam and marabou mouse pattern while trying to turn up a large night time brown. Proof:
Untitled

Posted on: 2013/7/28 18:08


Re: Big native!

Joined:
2010/5/1 9:10
From NE OH
Posts: 1292
Online
That would have made my night right there!

Posted on: 2013/7/28 18:14
_________________
"You don't need 7x. All right, 7x...now you're just being stupid. That's ridiculous. You know what else...throw away the 6x, because that's garbage too." -Hank Patterson


Re: Big native!

Joined:
2006/9/13 10:18
From LV
Posts: 7648
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Quote:

wildtrout2 wrote:
After catching many hundreds of natives over the years, my biggest still remains at 13.5". I figured it was maybe a 6 or 7 year old trout? Well, yesterday I saw a native (positively identified) that was at least 16" and maybe as big as 18" in a deep pool on a Clinton county freestone stream. I have NEVER seen a native this big, and probably never will again! It really flipped me out. lol I'm wondering how old this native could be, any thoughts? Mike?

Okay, so you didn't catch the fish, and you know it's a native how? Brookies over 14 inches anywhere are extremely rare, and the only places I've seen brookies over 14 inch has been in limetsone streams. Just saying.

Posted on: 2013/7/29 16:04


Re: Big native!

Joined:
2009/2/19 19:59
From Mont Co, Pa
Posts: 2030
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Chaz, you're a funny guy. lol The stream where I saw this trout is not stocked, and I was 3 miles from the nearest road. I have caught lots of natives on this stream, quite a few of these have been posted in the "fish photos" forum. I know a native when I see one, and this brookie looked EXACTLY like every other one I've ever caught on this stream, except MUCH larger than anything I've seen before. Also, this fish was only 10 feet away when I first saw it turn, giving me a perfect view in order to positively identify it. Believe me Chaz, it was a native. I'm well aware of how rare a native of this size is, as I mentioned in my OP.


Posted on: 2013/7/29 16:19

Edited by wildtrout2 on 2013/7/29 17:15:10
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Re: Big native!

Joined:
2010/5/1 9:10
From NE OH
Posts: 1292
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Quote:

wildtrout2 wrote:
I know a native when I see one, and this brookie looked EXACTLY like every other one I've ever caught on this stream, except MUCH larger the anything I've seen before.


No you don't!!! Bhaaaaaa. Chaz is a hoot

Posted on: 2013/7/29 16:22
_________________
"You don't need 7x. All right, 7x...now you're just being stupid. That's ridiculous. You know what else...throw away the 6x, because that's garbage too." -Hank Patterson


Re: Big native!

Joined:
2006/11/2 8:50
Posts: 6208
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wildtrout2, did you fish for this brookie?

And are you going back to fish for it again? I'll come along with a camera and take photos if you manage to catch it.

Brook trout are generally pretty easy to catch.

Posted on: 2013/7/29 16:46


Re: Big native!

Joined:
2009/2/19 19:59
From Mont Co, Pa
Posts: 2030
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Actually TB, I spooked this trout before I realized he was even there! As you know, you spook, you lose. The creeks up in that area are too low, so I don't see me going back any time soon.

Posted on: 2013/7/29 17:20
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Protect the resource, let them go!


Re: Big native!

Joined:
2006/9/13 10:18
From LV
Posts: 7648
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Quote:

wildtrout2 wrote:
Chaz, you're a funny guy. lol The stream where I saw this trout is not stocked, and I was 3 miles from the nearest road. I have caught lots of natives on this stream, quite a few of these have been posted in the "fish photos" forum. I know a native when I see one, and this brookie looked EXACTLY like every other one I've ever caught on this stream, except MUCH larger than anything I've seen before. Also, this fish was only 10 feet away when I first saw it turn, giving me a perfect view in order to positively identify it. Believe me Chaz, it was a native. I'm well aware of how rare a native of this size is, as I mentioned in my OP.


Not funny, just cantankorous It's an obvious question. I've caught stockies miles from the stocking point, in Kettle Creek and other creeks up that way. And while I didn't say, I caught a fish recently in a stream that as far as I know hasn't been stocked in anyones lifetime on the board , that could have been stocked. Really we should try to meet up sometime when we're both up that way.

Posted on: 2013/7/29 18:42


Re: Big native!

Joined:
2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
Posts: 13492
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There's no way to settle this without catching the dang fish. Give me GPS coordinates and describe his lie. I'll do my best to bring him to net. :) Troutbert can come for verification...

Seriously, all of the above are correct, though.

1. Stockies show up in some really weird places.
2. There's no way I could identify a wild from a holdover stockie while it's in the water.
3. Based on location, if wildtrout2's description is correct, then it doesn't HAVE to be wild, but there's an awfully good probability that it is. And I trust him to identify locations like that, where a stockie would be highly improbable (note, not impossible).
4. There are other "non-normal" explanations for big brookies other than limestone water. Such as, a lake or large water body downstream where he grew up.
5. Based on #3, perhaps the biggest question mark isn't stocked vs. wild, but rather how big it actually was. Clearly, it was a big brookie. But in a stream full of honest 7 and 8 inchers, a 12 or 13 incher looks like a freaking whale. I can say I've come across a couple in that size range, never bigger, and if I had merely seen them in the water without catching them, I could easily overestimate at 16 inches.

Posted on: 2013/7/30 8:10


Re: Big native!

Joined:
2007/6/19 21:49
From Lancaster County
Posts: 1532
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For two consecutive years (I believe 2007 and 2008), I had the haunting experience of encountering several 15-18" brookies in the wild. I never caught them, and even if I did, I don't think I could unequivocally say if they were wild or four-year-plus holdovers. They haunt me because they exist(ed) and I never had the chance to positively ID them. The colors and patterns on the fish were absolutely stunning - vibrant red fins tipped with white, green vermiculations and beautiful spot patterns. They were just what I imagined a large wild brookie should look like, but again, my imagination does not necessarily dictate that they were wild fish.

Two encounters were close up. One occurred where a small feeder stream flowed into the larger stream. The base of the stream was shale and it was no more than a foot or two deep along the edge, where a large old tree was in the water. After thoroughly fishing the run, I move up through the water, only to be stunned to see a large (18"+) brookie shift out from under the log. It was no more than three feet away, in shallow clear water. It hung there, for a moment, enough for my buddy I was with to see it too, and then it made a dash about ten feet upstream, into an undercut bank.

The second encounter was fishing a larger pool, with rock ledge walls. There are all kinds of nooks and crannies for fish to hang out in and I watched my brother drift something along the edge of the pool and then watched dumbfounded as a 15"+ brookie cruised out to inspect whatever he was drifting, deemed it inferior, and dropped back to its lair. This area of the pool also had shallow, clear water, and we had the four-foot eagle eye vantage point to inspect the fish.

So yes, I have no doubt such fish exist, but I think its extremely rare that they are caught on freestoners. And, even if they do exist, it would be hard to unequivocally prove that they were wild. Wild or holdover, that doesn't stop me from pursuing them..

Posted on: 2013/7/30 14:16


Re: Big native!

Joined:
2011/7/6 12:30
From Ephrata, PA
Posts: 6448
Online
If they're wild, it would be like coming accross a dinosaur in the modern era. A remnant of an older world, really. It would haunt me as well, Sal. Why not though? Maybe, just maybe, there is a chance that such dinosaurs still exist. They used to get that big in PA...is it possible that some "freaks" manage to consume enough food, find their way around water supplies that extend their growing season, and avoid predators long enough to reach such sizes? It IS haunting...

Posted on: 2013/7/30 14:23


Re: Big native!

Joined:
2006/9/13 10:18
From LV
Posts: 7648
Offline
Quote:

PatrickC wrote:
Quote:

Dcap240 wrote:
The right food source and or they become meat eaters and start eating other minnows...


Char in general are aggressive carnivores, and brook trout are no exception. The mainstay of their diet is other fish. They certainly do eat aquatic insects, but they don't have those giant mouths to slurp nymphs and mayflies. I've seen PA brookies attack frogs as they jumped into the stream.

All but one of the largest brookies I've caught have been on large streamers. One 14 inch fish was on a submerged royal wulff, others were caught on woolly buggers and sculpins. I once caught a trout on an AMD stream in the Schuylkill System and released it, as I let it go I saw another brookie take a frog off of the bank next to me. Another time I caught a brookies that clearly had a frog in it's stomach, you could see the shape of the frogs head, on a woolly bugger.
All the brookies I've caught that have been over 12 inches have been on #12 or larger dry flies.

Posted on: 2013/7/31 9:31



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