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Re: Bait fishing on the Little J

Joined:
2006/9/11 15:34
From Blair County
Posts: 73
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FYI !!!!!!

I was on the river with Bill Anderson the day he ran into the fisherman.

Second I fish the Lil j 5 days out of the week, year round !!! , more than anyone i can honestly say . Most who know of me can back that up. And I see bait fisherman all the time . And alot of dead trout down stream too

Dont fool yourself into to thinking that baitfisherman dont cause a high mortality ..

Posted on: 2007/6/27 16:33
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Re: Bait fishing on the Little J
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2006/9/9 9:29
From Monessen, PA
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Ranger Keen, I just want to clarify for the record that the doubts I have are not as to Bill Anderson accurately reporting what the 'baiters told him, but rather the veracity of the report they gave him.

Next, I have never seen a study supporting 50% mortality. I am sure some anglers can have higher piscacide rates than others, but as an average for the broad class of bait anglers, 50% does not strike me as a valid number. Dry hands, fingers in gills, rough removal of barbed hooks, exhausting the fish before landing and keeping the fish out of the water excessively long all probably account for greater mortality that mere bait fishing and deep hooking. While bait anglers may be more prone to commit these other handling errors, I've seen many fly and lure anglers do the same.

Educate the bait anglers to reduce mortality instead of excluding them from waters on the chance that they may be lessening your fishing experience.

Posted on: 2007/6/27 16:47
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Re: Bait fishing on the Little J

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2007/2/20 0:36
From Barto PA
Posts: 105
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I think Jack M has a good idea there. It is a long stretch of water and could easily be divided into two sections. One where bait is allowed and one where it isn't. This would be at least a somewhat scientific way of studying the differences in populations and size distribution on both types of water. I fished the Little J for the first time a couple weeks ago and was absolutely astounded at the number and size of the trout there. Now I see why you guys that have that kind of water readily available to you can't understand why us guys from S.E. PA. get so upset about people killing a few wild trout. There are probably more wild trout in any given pool on the Little J than there are in the total length of any of our wild trout streams. I know for a fact that there are more BIG wild trout in any pool of the L.J than there are in all our wild trout streams combined. You guys just don't realize how fortunate you are to have streams like the Little J, Penns and Spring Creek in your back yards. I was so impressed with the fishing in that area that I am planning to sell everything I own down here and move out there within the next couple of years.

Posted on: 2007/6/27 18:16


Re: Bait fishing on the Little J

Joined:
2006/10/26 23:01
From Ohio
Posts: 657
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Ah, this topic again. Come on, I want to see a new record thread. I'll let Jack and RRR argue this one for me this time......

Sal, good to see you've come around a bit, too. Good article. I'm willing to bet if they did a study comparing a nymph/indicator rig to a worm on a single circle hook actively fished under a bobber, the moratality would be simular.

Posted on: 2007/6/27 18:38


Re: Bait fishing on the Little J

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2006/9/9 17:18
From lancaster county
Posts: 6446
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im coming around, but! make no mistake. my problem is bait and keeping wild fish on small less fertile freestone streams. the little j is neither of these and the baiters are helping to keep the stream public. the deserve to be there. also the little j can stand to lose a few fish from bad hooks or mishandling. some small brookie streams cannot.

Posted on: 2007/6/27 18:48
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Re: Bait fishing on the Little J

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2006/10/26 23:01
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I also have to question Mr. Anderson's "studies"....I would like a copy. I emailed him.

Posted on: 2007/6/27 18:52


Re: Bait fishing on the Little J

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2006/9/9 17:18
From lancaster county
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funny thing is i wonder how the baiters will do after a few years of catch and release. they can really only fish about 10 things. as those fish get educated....(if the survive the bait hookings) they may give up on worms, corn, powerbait...etc. as opposed to the millions of flies a flyfisherman can use.

Posted on: 2007/6/27 18:55
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Re: Bait fishing on the Little J

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2007/1/2 11:55
From Bozeman
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Sal,

The problem with that thinking is that bait fisherman can use the real thing. If the trout are eating hellgramites for example, they can become educated to flies, but they'll always fall for the real thing when properly drifted.

It all depends on what they're eating. If it's size 20 caddis larva, they might be hard to get on a hook... but if the fish live off anything remotely hookable and chuckable, they'll always be fooled.

That said, I'd still rather have my thousands of flies to match the hatch.

Posted on: 2007/6/27 21:17


Re: Bait fishing on the Little J

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2006/9/9 17:18
From lancaster county
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thats true jay but in my experince (and in generalizing) baiters like it easy. an easy access point and easy bait. most bait shops sell only a few things. i dont see many baiters digging up nymphs to apply to a hook. plus its hard to hook a BWO. just a thought. but you are right.
and i too would rather have my thousand of options to match a hatch

Posted on: 2007/6/27 22:09
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Re: Bait fishing on the Little J

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2007/3/26 22:22
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I'm not sure if anyone will know the guy I'm speaking about but he was always in PA Angler and several other magazines. He's a tall, thin guy with glasses and a grey beard. He was the king of spin fishing on Centre Co's Spring Creek and other area streams. Strictly fishes spinners cast upstream. 10 years ago I ran into him between Paradise and Bellefonte. I was fishin the trico hatch and watched this guy work a few pools and take at least 20 fish between 12-18". I saw a similar performance on the Delaware WB by a guy fishing minnows. He must have taken 3 fish over 3 1/2 lbs in less then 30 minutes. A GOOD spin fisherman can fool even the most educated fish. You know the saying.... 90% of the fish are caught by 10% of the fishermen.

Posted on: 2007/6/27 23:25


Re: Bait fishing on the Little J

Joined:
2007/3/16 23:24
From Wilkes-Barre
Posts: 42
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What do I think? I think Mr. Anderson and the majority of these posts are from fly fishing snobs. Might as well join DB.

My preferred method of fishing is fly or ice, hence, “fly_N_ice,” but I also bait fish, and thanks to the annual “Nale Brothers” bashing threads, I also spin fish.

I’ll bet a paycheck to anyone who can show me how to bow fish - and release it without harming it.

Bottom line – it’s legal…

Hank

Posted on: 2007/6/28 0:14


Re: Bait fishing on the Little J

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2007/3/26 22:22
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I guess it's like golf. Lots of people do it and love it but there's only a small percentage that really know what they are doing.

Posted on: 2007/6/28 1:25


Re: Bait fishing on the Little J

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2007/1/2 11:55
From Bozeman
Posts: 19931
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Let me give some history on my fishing.

I learned to spin fish... I guess I was probably 4 years old. I had (have) a very well setup spin rod and reel which I fine tuned throughout the years. I picked up fly fishing because a friend of mine showed me the ways and I felt like it was a bit more fun... It was more fun because it was HARDER. I was also more involved when using the long rod, as opposed to just spin fishing on autopilot. I enjoyed the variety (I can use a dry, wet, nymph, terrestrial, egg, etc) in fly fishing so I stuck with it.

I will say this though...

I have had some AMAZING days over wild trout using very very tiny spinners, spoons, and natural baits. I didn't like deep hooking them so I moved to lures exclusively with the spinning rod. I had so many 50 fish days that I hung it up since it was becoming completely reactionary to me. The beauty of fly fishing for me is that I feel that there's so much to it that I'll never master it. At the young age of 22, I'd be bold enough to say that I mastered spin fishing over the 12 or so years that I did it exclusively-- keeping in mind I fished at least 200 days a year on various PA streams, rivers, and lakes.

Don't sell it short. You can catch ALOT of trout on it... Even over picky wild fish, I still feel that I could at least double my catch with the spinning gear. I fly fish because you only live once and catching them all isn't the point in my eyes, so do it the way that makes you happiest. I will say that when the beers are cold and the all nighter camping out with friends is there for opening day, I pull old faithful out for a few hours. It's still too easy, but hell... It's still fishin too.

Just to give some credit to Hank and sight's points is all.

Posted on: 2007/6/28 1:30


Re: Bait fishing on the Little J

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2007/3/26 22:22
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J

Well put for a man of 22. Fly fishing is a beautiful skill. I used to go out with the mindset that I was going to catch every fish in the stream but now catching a few is fine by me. Is there really a more challenging or pleasurable way to do it?

Posted on: 2007/6/28 1:46


Re: Bait fishing on the Little J

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2006/9/9 17:18
From lancaster county
Posts: 6446
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wow i think there is a big difference between being a trout snob, a flyfishing snob and closing down streams to everyone but the rich like DB. never said the baitfishers shouldnt be on the LJ.

Posted on: 2007/6/28 5:16
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