Another Tourist Seeking Advice

[upinak]

Been lurking here a while now. Come spring of 2012 after 35 years of living and fly fishing in Alaska, the wife and I are retiring and moving to warmer sunnier streams. We are in the process of buying a RV to travel in from May through October and then head south for the winters. Our plans are to spend May and June in Pennsylvania and July through September out west after runoff before heading south come fall.

I have been fly fishing for thirty years; mostly to quite stupid fish in Alaska with yearly trips south for different hatches and a diversity of fly fishing. For the most part Alaska is an entomological desert. I have much to learn about small fly fishing, but am looking forward to the education. I have been reading and educating myself about PA streams and rivers for a few years now as well as tying up my bucket list of flies. My current conviction is to discover two good watersheds and become familiar with them by returning each year and spending a few weeks to a month on each before heading west. I’m thinking one freestone and one spring creek.

So my fellow PA flyfishers… if you were limited to only ONE each freestone and One each spring creek in your beautiful state, which would you choose? In my mind now I’m thinking of the First Fork Sinnemahoning or the Little L for the freestone. I’m at a loss with regard to a spring creek.

My criteria would be first a good diversity of mayfly hatches through May and June and the other would be public access, as I will be on foot. Not looking for trophy fish, simply watersheds I can become familiar with over the years that I can discover the secrets they hold.

Appreciate the help as I'm getting to the point where I need to tie more specific rather than general.

Thank You!

 

[McSneek]

You should get tons of replies to your post. I suggest you focus on the Centre County area which would give you access to Penns Creek (my personal favorite) and Spring Creek. I'm sure you've heard about them. Penns is limestone influenced but really has the characteristics of a large freestone stream. If you are in that area you are also not far from some of the more well known freestone streams in the Northern part of the state. Compared to Alaska PA is tiny. You could cover a huge number of quality streams if you were willing to drive about a two hour radius from State College. Little L (Little Lehigh - Allentown) or Little J (Huntingdon Co.)? Big difference between the two. Little J is another large limestoner with freestone characteristics. I'm sure some posters will also tell you to check out the Delaware River too.

 

[NCPAtrtbum]

Here's hoping the drama fiends on here don't derail this thread, like so many others.

I'd have to agree with Centre county. You got the Little J, Penns, spruce,spring all nearby and just south of you, you have the most famous chalk stream this side of the Atlantic (letort). And just north of you you have Pine/slate/cedar plus other numerous freestone streams with some influence of limestone.

McSneek pretty much nailed it. But yea, +1 for Centre county!

Great questions also.

 

[tennjed]

+3 for Centre County. Penns and Spring would be my first choice. Big Fishing creek is right next door.

 

[Swattie87]

Welcome Upinak. I'll second the sentiments that hopefully this thread stays on point. Your question is a good and fair one, and any stream that gets mentioned by name in this thread certainly is no secret.

You will likely get a million different answers here, but IMO to get the true PA fly fishing experience you should also try to include some small, infertile headwater Brookie streams while you're here. Many of the streams that will get mentioned by name are largely wild Brown Trout streams. Brook Trout are the state fish, and the only stream trout species native to PA. These are small streams and tight quarters fly fishing, but in my mind these streams represent an important part of fly fishing in PA. The fish in these streams are beautiful and eager, and will take almost anything, as long as they don't see you first. As far as where to look for these types of streams, in general they are the most plentiful in the north central part of the state. Look for small tribs or headwater streams in the Kettle or Pine Creek drainages as a starting point. The Poconos area also has a good number of these streams...look for small, heavily forested streams with some gradient to them. As far as access, you should be fine on any stream that is in a State Park or State Game Land.

As far as a limestoner, if you made me pick one, I'd say the Letort, simply due to its role in fly fishing history. Fortunately there are several other famous limestoners in that general area too (Big Spring, Falling Spring, etc). These are tough to fish, but you get a lot of bang for your buck in this area and can hit several "famous" streams in one afternoon. The Centre county area (as mentioned by the previous posters) has a cluster of these streams as well.

The Little J isn't really a true freestone stream as it has pretty significant limestone influences, but it would still top my list probably if you're looking for larger stream fishing. Penns would also fit the bill as a freestoner with significant (more so than the LJ) limestone influence, and the aforementioned Kettle and Pine Creeks would also be good options for larger freestoners. All of these have decent hatches, with a good bit of info on the specifics on this site or elsewhere on the net. The Upper Delaware River would also be an option if you're interested in traveling further east.

In summary...and to answer your question as best I can, I would pick 3...

Letort
Little J
Any small Brookie stream

 

[Fishidiot]

Upinak,
Welcome - sounds like a great adventure. The Sinnemahoning would be a great choice for the freestoner. Little Lehigh is more of a limestone stream. They'd make a good pair but are pretty far apart. I'd stick with the Sinne and, for the limestoner, I'd vote for Spring Creek. These two are closer together and would make a great annual trip.

 

[pcray1231]

With 2 whole months, I doubt I'd limit myself to 2 watersheds, as the name of the game around here is to be flexible to changing conditions. One stream's blown out, another is perfect. Then that one becomes too low and clear, and the 1st one is perfect. Compared to the west, our weather and streams are boom/bust variety, we go from unfishable flooding conditions to perfect and back again in a few days/weeks time frame. Our limestoners are more stable than the freestoners, but even those are boom/bust compared to the west.

But if I had to limit myself to 1 limestoner for the rest of my life: Penns Creek. It's not necessarily the best limestoner out there from a fish catching perspective, but it is probably the most dynamic. GREAT hatches, miles of public water, beautiful area. And it's one that you truly have to learn, you don't just show up and be successful, it humbles and then surprises the best of us. There are a handful of tribs that are worthwhile and even excellent, but you won't find the endless fishery within a drainage that the freestoners offer. Limestoners are more about putting in your time and learning the secrets of that stream rather than exploring the tribs.

^^Kind of drives home the point about being flexible. Penns is known as the first to muddy and the last to clear, and in the spring, it can be unfishable nearly half the time. But nearby are other limestoners that hold up to rain a lot better.

For a freestoner, yeah, I'd probably pick a NC stream. I'd probably choose Pine or Kettle over the First Fork, but any of them would do. Any large freestoner is gonna have stocked fish and good hatches. But in our larger freestoners, there are a lot of miles of tributaries which offer a large variety of experiences and enless ability to explore, and most of the tribs will be wild browns or farther into the headwaters, brookies. Pine or Kettle and their numerous tribs offer enough water to keep any angler interested for a lifetime.

Have fun, that's a dream trip!

 

[bikerfish]

I'll agree with what others have said, centre county would be my pick, puts you within easy driving distance to LOTS of good water. and hey, if your around in may, you can attend the PAFF JAM! it's usually held towards the end of may! good luck to you, sounds like a great trip!

 

[TimMurphy]

Dear upinak,

I have a question for you, the answer to which will go a long way towards answering your question in a practical manner.

You said you are going to be traveling in an RV, will the RV be your sole vehicle or will you be towing something smaller to use once you set up a base camp?

I ask that because depending on the size of your RV you may find that access to many areas will be limited. While you can get a larger RV in and out of many access areas it will not be an easy task. For practical purposes something 24 to 26 feet long would be the absolute maximum size you should think about taking on many forest roads here in PA.

Having asked my question I'll assume that you won't have access to a smaller shuttle vehicle and base my recommendations on that.

I would suggest that you consider beginning your PA trip in early May on the upper Delaware. You may also consider getting a NY license as well. Up there you will have access to a number of campgrounds that are right along the Delaware River allowing you to get up and go fishing without always having to move your house in the process. You could spend the better part of the month of May in that area and not run out places to fish.

Towards the end of May I'd suggest you consider breaking camp and heading to the Centre County Region. Folks here on the board have already mentioned a number of streams in the area. I will tell you that access to some of them, Penns Creek for example, will be limited if you have to rely on your RV as your sole mode of transportation. You'll have no trouble exploring Spring Creek with the RV though since it is paralleled by roads throughout it's length. Parking may be a bit of an issue in spots but with roads along Spring Creek you can find a place to park and then walk upstream or down with no trouble. Likewise from the Centre Region you can access the Little Juniata and even Pine Creek or the Loyalsock area within an hour or so's drive.

I'm sure others will have additional suggestions and once we know if you'll have access to another vehicle besides the camper we'll be able to recommend a number of close by side trips to other streams.

Have fun in your travels wherever they take you!

Regards,

Tim Murphy

 

[upinak]

A tip of the hat gentlemen. Wasn't sure how the request would be received. I appreciate the suggestions. We will be pulling a larger 5th wheel with a F350. If you see a white F350 streamside with Alaska tags that read 18_BWO be sure to stop and say hello. There is a larger RV park north of State College in Ft. Bellefonte. Already have it POI'd. I'm narrowing down the "home base" to either Centre or Potter counties. State College or Cloudersport. Appreciate the Upper Deleware suggestions too, it's on the list.

When I tell people I'm looking forward to leaving AK with steelhead, large cuts and bows and five species of salmon to fish in PA and CO they kinda scratch thier heads. What they don't understand is most of that 35 years of AK fishing was done in neoprene and 3 layers of wool in 50 degree raining sideways weather. To walk a hardwood forest bank among the laurel and cast in light hippers in a light shirt and maybe a pullover sweatshirt to rising trout will truly be paradise. Everything, gentlemen, is relative.

Cheers!

___________
Daddy won't you take me down to Newlandberg County, down by the Green River where paradise flows. I'm sorry my son but you're too late in asking, Mr. Peabody's coal train has hauled it away.

 

[trout_stalker]

And then there's the cutural shock of going from relatively unpopulated AK to the higher population density of PA. Taking that into consideration, I'd stay away from the likes of the LL and concentrate on the State College area.

We moved from NJ - talk about population density - to NEPA. That move was like moving to paradise in terms of the cutural shock, i.e., traffic and population density. But, if it where not for family reasons, I would much rather be in Centre County - if I were to stay in PA, that is.

 

[tulenkot]

If your used to stupid fish than my recommendations may test your patience. For freestone I choose Slate Run. Good hatches, beautiful wild browns in the lower section and brookies all the way up to the headwaters. People say its overated but it offers the best combination of solitude, scenery, and fish habitat. Fish are more than just holding on here through the summer like in many other freestones. Its usually a tough place to fish but thats half the fun. Its a great example of a PA wild trout freestone. As for a spring creeks, I think the Letort, and Big Spring, are the classic spring creeks to check out. Again, often tough fishing, but the cystal clear water, lush aquatic vegitation, and large visible trout feeding really exemplify what classic PA spring creeks are all about. Enjoy the trip! I wish I was traveling the country in an RV!

 

[Chaz]

The best fly fishing on freestone streams in PA are in NC PA in the Pine Creek Drainage. The bigest Slate and Cedar Runs are the best of the lot and have excellent hatches to go along with good populations of fish. Pine Creek itself is very good for hatches but is a stocked stream for most of its length. All it's tributaries large and small have wild browns or brookies or both.
The Little Lehigh is a spring creek mostly in an urban setting, it's in a park setting. Fishing can be very good, but it's on a downturn right now and populations of flies and fish seem to be down according to some locals.
But Spring Creek can be good in Centre County so can Fishing Creek in Lamar, of the 2 Fishing Creek has the best hatches.
Throughout PA the best time of the year for hatches is May and June, you almost can't go wrong anywhere you might go.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Everyone has given you great advice. The only thing Ill add with extremely high importance is that while your here, you visit the Letort at some point. EVERY fly fisherman should at least once.

Good Luck! Lets us know how you do after you go!

 

[Nymph-O-Maniac]

All good advice so far. I'm curious as to what's on that bucket list of flies. May-June in Pa HOPEFULLY in 2012 will produce the normal outpourring of wonderful hatches unlike last year.

 

[gfen]

Tell you what, I live by the Little Lehigh and I wouldn't visit it if I were driving through the state. I'm flabbergasted anyone would want to, however, I'm goign to assume the last 35 years were spent in a cabin in Alaska with only a HAM radio and a friend named Sven in Iceland on the other end of that and he told you that 25 years ago the LL mattered.

I'm not gonna tell you streams to go fish, there's lots of people here with better answers. I am going to tell you that recently someone stopped with me at the Letort and while its not something I'd seek out to fish, its a sight the likes of which I don't think I'll see again. Its worth a detour just to take it in.

 

[PaulG]

Upinak

Sounds like a great trip, I hope you will enjoy your stay in Pa. Your choice of Ft.Bellefonte CG's is a good one, the wife and I have stayed there a few time and liked it, and it not far from some very good fishing.

Good like with your trip, if you find the time let us know how your doing!

PaulG

 

[afishinado]

Sounds like a great adventure. If it were me, and I had two months to fish PA, I would fish many of the streams mentioned by spending two weeks in each region. NEPA - Delaware River and Catskill streams (NY), NCPA - Pine Creek Drainage, Central PA - Penns, Spring, Fishing, LJ and a whole bunch of the smaller tribs, SCPA - Limestoners incl. Big Spring, Letort, Yellow Breeches.

Good luck, and keep in touch with the board. I can just about guarantee that members would volunteer to show you around when you roll in to PA.

 

[pafisherman]

UPINAK
Sounds like a great plan. You have gotten some great answer from the folks here. I would second for your first few trips try as many streams as you can or want to get to. Also while you are keep an eye on the water reports and stream guages. They will help point you to the more "fishable" water. Lastly if you can get to this board and want to ask around I know I and many would enjoy an outting on many of our favorite streamss here in PA.. I am sure you have many great stories to share..
Bill A

 

[Bruno]

Come to the Jam - not sure of the dates but it should be around that time. Here is some info from this years. Not sure if there are any dates picked for this year but I am sure it will be picked soon.

http://www.paflyfish.com/smartsection.item.202/2011-Fly-Fishing-Jamboree-and-Meetup.html

Plus we can claim you as the participant that came the farthest and dethrone GG.