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Re: Another Marcellus Shale Explosion

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2009/4/4 8:58
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Now Jay... Your last response would have been fine if not for your last sentence! I did not make any rubbish up about pcray. His response to my original post confirmed that! You don't need to try and justify yourself to the members on this board... Like you said there is more serious business in the world.

Posted on: 2010/6/21 12:46


Re: Another Marcellus Shale Explosion

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2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
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jeff,

You implied my motivations involved some personal gain from the drilling companies doing well. That's just not true. Compared to the average person in this state, I stand less to gain and more to lose.

Posted on: 2010/6/21 12:59


Re: Another Marcellus Shale Explosion

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From Bozeman
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What he said.

It's on the record, so I feel no need to convince you of what you said.

Posted on: 2010/6/21 13:15


Re: Another Marcellus Shale Explosion

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Pcray

Job security is personal gain which is plenty motivating for most people. You said yourself you got a dog in this fight. We all have our thoughts on this. I am not saying my point of view is any better than yours. I just felt I had to make my opinion on this thread known. No hard feelings Pcray hope to see you on a creek nearby.


As for JayL..... It most be great being right all the time

Posted on: 2010/6/21 13:20


Re: Another Marcellus Shale Explosion

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I said I have ALL the dogs in this fight. I know that we sell to just about all of the energy segments, and we're gonna make our money nomatter which segment grows. I'm not privy to the information on how much we make from the various generation types; not a business guy. My best guess, and its just a guess, is we'd stand to make more from wind than any other type. More raw materials needed per megawatt hour. And its a less mature industry with lots of technological advancements, which translates to the need for more NEW materials. Thats what we excel at, we can't compete with the mega-mills that make commodity steels. We make stuff that nobody else can make, and we make money on it until the patent runs out and someone else figures out how to make it.

Logically speaking, energy companies and I both benefit from high demand. But on the supply side, energy companies want it cheap and easy, whereas I should want it expensive and difficult.

Bottom line: My opinion in no way is influenced by job security.

And of course, even if my reasoning differs, my conclusion does not differ from yours anyway. Which leaves me a little perplexed as to why you implied that I'm with the industry?

Posted on: 2010/6/21 14:11


Re: Another Marcellus Shale Explosion

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From Bozeman
Posts: 19931
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Quote:

jeff wrote:

As for JayL..... It most be great being right all the time


I didn't ask for this burden, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. It's tough...

Posted on: 2010/6/21 14:14


Re: Another Marcellus Shale Explosion

Joined:
2009/4/4 8:58
From Reading
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Quote:

jayL wrote:
Quote:

jeff wrote:

As for JayL..... It most be great being right all the time


I didn't ask for this burden, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. It's tough...



Must be lonely!

Posted on: 2010/6/21 14:38


Re: Another Marcellus Shale Explosion

Joined:
2006/12/13 9:28
From Other side of the tracks
Posts: 19011
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Quote:

Slate_Drake_9 wrote:
pcray gave a good explanation. One really important thing left out though is that this drilling can and does cross numerous aquafers and the process of "fracking" that takes places uses lots of very harmful chemicals that have to be "passed through" these aquafers. Something like 80% of the "fracking" fluid stays in the ground and is known to migrate into different aquafers. I've read this has happend up to 30 miles away from the actual well pad.



That's all true, but shallow gas wells cross the same aquifers. With ALL of these wells, there are casing requirements which is supposed to keep the drilling effects out of the aquifers.

Pennsylvania Oil and Gas act.

Lots of useful information in there.

The fracking used in the Marcellus shale wells is capillary, not explosive and theoretically doesn’t involve disturbances at upper levels. If the well employs a casing, and the fracking takes place at over a mile deep, how is that going to disturb the ground water?

All that said, theory sometimes takes a vacation, especially when companies take shortcuts (like BP). I know of some fairly series problems cause by recent gas well drilling, and it wasn't marcellus, and wasn't horizontal drilling. One house even blew up alledgedly from methane buildup as a result of drilling and many wells ruined.

Dere is the kicker. We cannot do away with the stuff.

Like the old saying goes, we either grow it, or we mine it. No matter what the tree huggers or the anti-drilling people say, it is still true.

Posted on: 2010/6/21 15:27
_________________
There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance." -Henry David Thoreau--


Re: Another Marcellus Shale Explosion

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I didn't realize that there were this many responses already and that I was that far behind on this. so please take my last response with a grain of salt. Looks like I repeated a few people.

Posted on: 2010/6/21 15:31
_________________
There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance." -Henry David Thoreau--


Re: Another Marcellus Shale Explosion

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Quote:

JackM wrote:
Whatever your reason pcray, you do often seem to be defending the industry as well as minimizing the effects it does and can have on the environment. On the one hand, it is refreshing to see you aren't fooled by the alarmist commentary that others buy into hook, line and sinker, but it is also discouraging that it seems to many of us that you may be slow to raise your weapon when the enemy appears on the horizon.


That is often the case when someone knowledgeable points out the errors of someone posting on emotion instead of fact. I for one have been impressed with pcray's knowledge of drilling especially considering he doesn't work for a drilling company.

Posted on: 2010/6/21 15:44
_________________
There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance." -Henry David Thoreau--


Re: Another Marcellus Shale Explosion

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2006/12/13 9:28
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Posts: 19011
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Quote:

pcray1231 wrote:
I said I have ALL the dogs in this fight. I know that we sell to just about all of the energy segments, and we're gonna make our money nomatter which segment grows. I'm not privy to the information on how much we make from the various generation types; not a business guy. My best guess, and its just a guess, is we'd stand to make more from wind than any other type. More raw materials needed per megawatt hour. And its a less mature industry with lots of technological advancements, which translates to the need for more NEW materials. Thats what we excel at, we can't compete with the mega-mills that make commodity steels. We make stuff that nobody else can make, and we make money on it until the patent runs out and someone else figures out how to make it.

Logically speaking, energy companies and I both benefit from high demand. But on the supply side, energy companies want it cheap and easy, whereas I should want it expensive and difficult.

Bottom line: My opinion in no way is influenced by job security.

And of course, even if my reasoning differs, my conclusion does not differ from yours anyway. Which leaves me a little perplexed as to why you implied that I'm with the industry?


more like a dog in every fight.

Pat, We seem to have some common customers (industries), and from what I have seen, I would bet your company would stand to make a whole lot more money from wind energy.

Posted on: 2010/6/21 15:54
_________________
There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance." -Henry David Thoreau--


Re: Another Marcellus Shale Explosion
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
Posts: 9117
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Quote:

FarmerDave wrote:
....so please take my last response with a grain of salt.


No worry, I take all your posts with a grain of salt....




IMHO, Pcray has done more to educate me on the MS subject than the many articles I've read on the subject. With this information, I feel I can make my own more informed judgment whether to support or oppose it, rather than making a judgment based on all the hype and hysteria I read all over the place.

I choose to oppose the drilling because of the many environmental issues raised. But I least I have a clue as how the process works and why it could be a problem.

Thanks Pcray.

Posted on: 2010/6/21 16:03


Re: Another Marcellus Shale Explosion

Joined:
2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
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Quote:
Pat, We seem to have some common customers (industries), and from what I have seen, I would bet your company would stand to make a whole lot more money from wind energy.


That is my impression as well, but I have not seen the numbers to confirm those suspicions. Not a business guy. The business guys just tell me what to work on, and I say yes sir.

Of course, those business guys telling me what to do don't get to make this decision; they have no bearing on the outcome either. They're just in a better position than me to predict what the outcome will be.

Posted on: 2010/6/21 16:11


Re: Another Marcellus Shale Explosion
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2006/9/8 9:35
Posts: 4532
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HBO "Gasland" tonight at 9:00 coverage includes some of the issues of #Marcellus Shale fracking in PA http://ow.ly/21nx5

Posted on: 2010/6/21 16:35



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