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A tale of two streams...
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The twin valleys are split by Crystal Clear Mountain. In the valley to the west, Catch’em Creek flows cold and clear. To the east is a twin stream called Releas’em Run.

Catch’em has open harvest regulations, while Releas’em is catch & release only.

According to a shocking survey done at the end of March, both streams have an estimated population of 2000 catchable sized wild trout going into the early April trout season, with 600 trout of legal, harvestable size including 200 fish 12” or greater.

The flows and weather were great in April, and anglers flocked to both streams to try their luck. Because of these good conditions, angler usage was very high on both streams.

At the end of April on Catch’em Creek, 300 legal sized fish were harvested by anglers (that’s an average of 10/day) of which 100 trout 12” or greater were removed.

Releas’em Run had close to the same population of trout at the end of April as in the beginning of the month.

At the end of May, on Catch’em, a total of 400 legal sized fish were harvested with 150 of that total being 12” or greater (that’s an average of just over 3 fish per day being harvested in May). Leaving 200 legal sized fish including 50 fish being 12” or greater left in the stream.

On Releas’em Run, less than 100 fish have perished, leaving well over 500 decent fish including close to 200 over 12” still roaming the riffs and runs.

The summer was rainy with moderate temperatures. Catch’em Creek saw little angler usage over the summer in to the early fall.

To the east, Releas’em Run had a steady amount of angler usage, mostly during early mornings and evenings right through the early fall. It fished well throughout the entire season.

The trout carried well on both streams with the favorable conditions going into the spawn. As the season turned to fall, the rigors of spawning took its toll on the fish, along with predators and lastly a long, hard winter with anchor ice forming in the shallows.

Winter slowly gave way to spring, and the stream levels were favorable at the end of March for a shocking survey, which was done on both streams during the same week as the year before.

The survey results were in, and terms like mortality rate, recruitment rate, harvestable surplus, compensatory mortality, additive mortality were all considered and calculated by the fisheries biologists. Finally, all data was plugged into a formula which might go something like N1 = N0 + B - D + I - E.

The findings…the twin streams, a year later both have the same biomass of wild trout with an estimated 2000 catchable sized fish including 600 legal sized trout with 200 fish 12” or greater.

According to the fisheries biologists, harvest has little or no effect on the wild trout populations.

I guess they’re right………right?


Posted on: 2013/9/8 11:16

Edited by afishinado on 2013/9/8 11:59:30


Re: A tale of two streams...

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...as Danny patiently waits for the un-divuldged information about to be offered...

Posted on: 2013/9/8 11:27
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Re: A tale of two streams...
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No more info, Dan. A tale. Like Rumpelstiltskin, Cinderella or Jack and the Beanstalk........

Posted on: 2013/9/8 11:36


Re: A tale of two streams...

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I seem to remember a study in Idaho that had a similar conclusion. Wild and stockers can co-exist.

Posted on: 2013/9/8 12:18


Re: A tale of two streams...
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This dream is to mike as the sweedish bikini team dream is to me.

Only difference in streams is catchem crik has poor fall and winter fishing from a size stand point.
I wonder what the size distribution of the fish over 12" is between the two criks the next spring?

Posted on: 2013/9/8 14:44
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Don't hit me with them negative waves so early in the morning. Think the bridge will be there and it will be there. It's a mother, beautiful bridge, and it's gonna be there. Ok?


Re: A tale of two streams...

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All of the old timers say that Release Em Run doesn't fish like it used to back in the day.

Posted on: 2013/9/8 16:14


Re: A tale of two streams...

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Were they stocked? Did the streams rely on wild trout only? Were the water temps comparable? Do trout migrate to colder water on either creek? Is poaching a problem?

I am a believer in c/r regulations. I believe that some streams I know of are much better now than they were when I started fishing because almost all guys who fish them release the fish they catch, even without official c/r regulations.

One suffered from overharvest during the year of the locust (what most people like to call by the e------- name cicada), and only this year has it fished as it did before the slaughter during the locust year ( 3 or 4 years ago). This year there is a nice population of various ages of trout. For a couple years, all you could catch were mostly the little guys the locust guys didn't kill.

Anyhow, there are lots of questions about the two cricks you wrote about.

Posted on: 2013/9/8 17:18


Re: A tale of two streams...

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jebus, afish, and you say my poasts are confusing.

Posted on: 2013/9/8 20:13
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April 8, 2007 - December 4, 2011.
And why not?


Re: A tale of two streams...

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Quote:

teedee wrote:
I seem to remember a study in Idaho that had a similar conclusion. Wild and stockers can co-exist.


Got a link?

Posted on: 2013/9/8 20:45


Re: A tale of two streams...

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Quote:

Maurice wrote:

sweedish bikini team



Got a link?

Posted on: 2013/9/8 20:46


Re: A tale of two streams...

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It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.

Posted on: 2013/9/9 1:41
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Re: A tale of two streams...

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I dunno. I might fish UNT to Catch'em, so narrow it would not be stocked by the pfbc. Or fished very often. Heck, I fished two streams like that yesterday in NEPA, one class A on public land. Would have been shocked to see another fisherman, even more so one keeping small brook trout.

So I am hardly a trophy trout hunter. But I somehow doubt that biologists are reporting annual spring biomass comparisons without reporting a huge harvest effect on summer/fall size structure. pfbc reports often give both biomass and size. first one I pulled below:

"Site #1 - Downstream of SR 0534 (Site length 352 yards)
Total number caught on first pass = 144 Number of brown trout 7 to 12 inches = 34 Number of brown trout 13 inches = 2 Estimated wild brown trout biomass was 46.4 lbs per acre"




Posted on: 2013/9/9 6:15

Edited by k-bob on 2013/9/9 6:31:19
Edited by k-bob on 2013/9/9 6:46:10


Re: A tale of two streams...
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Alright......feeble fable, maybe.

Some random thoughts:

I constantly read that creel limits and harvest have no or little effect on wild fish (trout) populations. I believe this is true in the long term, like a season or seasons.

But in these two streams, from an anglers perspective, fishing both streams on June 1st many of the fish (and mostly larger ones) are cropped out of Catch'em in the 8 previous weeks of harvest while many/most still remain in Releas'em. Pick a number: 5 stringers, 55 stringers, 155 stringers of fish were taken out. Which stream would fish better on June 1st? Or in the early fall?

True, that in the course of a year, the natural mortality rate will tend equal out the total biomass, while the age structure of the fish is up for debate on both streams (as Mo pointed out).

Is a fish "wasted" if it dies of natural causes like disease, a predator, flood, drought rather than being harvested and eaten?

(From another active thread on here) Does cropping out wild fish help or hurt a stream and/or increase the average size of the fish? I am not near smart enough to know if harvesting fish from any stream is hurting or helping the wild fish population.....so I turn them all back.

In PA, we are lucky to have many hundreds of quality wild trout streams to fish. Make as little impact as possible. Return the fish... share with others.

Wild trout streams are self-sustaining if we take care of the stream and release the fish we catch.


Posted on: 2013/9/9 7:12


Re: A tale of two streams...

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I personally don't fish for stockies, fish w/o barbs, and have never kept a trout. But I see an irony here... people sometimes want science based trout management... until they don't like what the science says :)

there are so many miles of low pressure unstocked trout water in PA that I think the state deserves credit for current mgt practices.


Posted on: 2013/9/9 7:38

Edited by k-bob on 2013/9/9 8:02:09
Edited by k-bob on 2013/9/9 8:02:36
Edited by k-bob on 2013/9/9 8:03:23
Edited by k-bob on 2013/9/9 8:04:38
Edited by k-bob on 2013/9/9 8:24:01


Re: A tale of two streams...
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Joined:
2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
Posts: 9103
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Quote:

k-bob wrote:
I personally don't fish for stockies, fish w/o barbs, and have never kept a trout. But I see an irony here... people sometimes want science based trout management... until they don't like what the science says :)

there are so many miles of low pressure unstocked trout water in PA that I think the state deserves credit for current mgt practices.


True above. Many give back, or at least put back, and do not take...like you. Is it a bad thing to try to get the word out and teach others to do the same?

I talk to dozens of anglers on the stream every season that have no clue that the trout they catch, or sometimes have on their stringer are wild, streamborn trout. Don't underestimate the amount of anglers that believe all trout they catch come in big white trucks.




Posted on: 2013/9/9 8:06



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