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"The value of stocked trout"

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2008/8/24 20:26
From Mount Joy, PA
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From today's Lancaster Sunday News:

http://lancasteronline.com/article/lo ... lue-of-stocked-trout.html

My only "gripe" would be semantics... They are not "native" brown trout, but "streambred" instead

Posted on: 2013/4/28 14:10


Re: "The value of stocked trout"

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I don't agree with author's opinion.

Poe Creek has wild trout too. They are stocking over wild trout in that stream.

Also, the dam on that stream causes thermal pollution, harming both Poe Creek and Penns Creek.

The dam was in poor repair. They could have removed the dam, benefiting the wild trout in Poe and Penns Creek. If DCNR really cared about the health of their streams and of wild trout populations, that's what they would have done.

But they decided to rebuild the dam. So they spent a pile of money, and chose to cause thermal pollution of Poe and Penns Creek.

The author's point is that there a places where stocked trout make sense, and I agree with that. But Poe Creek is not a good example. Hatchery trout should be stocked in places where wild trout cannot exist.

Wild trout streams should be managed in a way that maintains the health of the streams and their wild trout populations.

Posted on: 2013/4/29 7:36


Re: "The value of stocked trout"

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I agree 100% with you troutbert on that.

Posted on: 2013/4/29 9:27


Re: "The value of stocked trout"

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I just commented and kind of said the same thing, Troutbert. Since its my local paper, I think there should be some things pointed out. If we talk about the expenses of raising trout, okay. Use that money more wisely. Stop stocking streams that don't need to be stocked, and stop putting wild fish in harm's way from harvesting by ignorant anglers by putting stocked fish in over them.

Posted on: 2013/4/29 9:55


Re: "The value of stocked trout"

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"Wild trout don't compete with stocked trout and stocked trout don't compete with wild trout.

Since when?!

I have trouble believing this is an accurate quote from John Arway. Whatever, it simply isn't true and there are any number of studies that say so.

Many stocked PA streams are infertile freestones. Food and habitat are scarce. That's why trout living in them seldom exceed 10 inches. A stream can only support so many fish and so much biomass. How could anyone believe that adding more trout does not overload the whole ecosystem? And the fishing pressure/harvesting that stocking encourages is another factor that is just ignored in the discussion.

Posted on: 2013/5/1 11:38


Re: "The value of stocked trout"

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Didn't read the article. As to the competition wrinkle, I agree the wild vs. stocked competition card is overplayed. The competition studies are not that many and anyway it's quite unscientific to think you can apply study results to any particular stream though studies do provide ideas on what you might try or avoid. There's usually some effort to match biomass with stocked quantity minus projected harvest. I'm sure we already knew that but just forgot to mention it.

Cropping from harvest is the problem. If you really think it's competition there's an easy solution: organize a TU fishing party and jerk the stockers out. Fortunately, that job is usually done quite effectively by regular Joe anglers by mid June.

Posted on: 2013/5/1 14:04


Re: "The value of stocked trout"

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Quote:

KenU wrote:
"Wild trout don't compete with stocked trout and stocked trout don't compete with wild trout.


I missed that quote when reading the article. Wow!






Posted on: 2013/5/1 14:33


Re: "The value of stocked trout"
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Perhaps he meant that the Commission tries to avoid those situations in their management practices. Which may be more or less true on the whole (in PA).

Posted on: 2013/5/1 14:38
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Re: "The value of stocked trout"

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Nothing to add: T/bert and Ken U. have stated things pretty well.

Posted on: 2013/5/1 17:33


Re: "The value of stocked trout"

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From Lancaster County
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Quote:

KenU wrote:
"Wild trout don't compete with stocked trout and stocked trout don't compete with wild trout.

Since when?!

I have trouble believing this is an accurate quote from John Arway. Whatever, it simply isn't true and there are any number of studies that say so.

Many stocked PA streams are infertile freestones. Food and habitat are scarce. That's why trout living in them seldom exceed 10 inches. A stream can only support so many fish and so much biomass. How could anyone believe that adding more trout does not overload the whole ecosystem? And the fishing pressure/harvesting that stocking encourages is another factor that is just ignored in the discussion.


I initially reacted with a "huh?" on the stocked vs. wild thing. Then, after I thought about it, I felt that the concept of having wild trout vs. the concept of having stocked trout are not necessarily mutually exclusive, and therefore, the concepts don't necessarily compete with each other, so maybe that's closer to what Arway meant. On a stream with wild fish that is stocked over, the concepts do compete with each other, but in Lancaster County, for instance, those ideas can co-exist peacefully. In other words stocked/wild is not an either/or; its a both/and, across the Commonwealth.

Posted on: 2013/5/1 22:16


Re: "The value of stocked trout"

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Quote:

salmonoid wrote:
Quote:

KenU wrote:
"Wild trout don't compete with stocked trout and stocked trout don't compete with wild trout.

Since when?!

I have trouble believing this is an accurate quote from John Arway. Whatever, it simply isn't true and there are any number of studies that say so.

Many stocked PA streams are infertile freestones. Food and habitat are scarce. That's why trout living in them seldom exceed 10 inches. A stream can only support so many fish and so much biomass. How could anyone believe that adding more trout does not overload the whole ecosystem? And the fishing pressure/harvesting that stocking encourages is another factor that is just ignored in the discussion.


I initially reacted with a "huh?" on the stocked vs. wild thing. Then, after I thought about it, I felt that the concept of having wild trout vs. the concept of having stocked trout are not necessarily mutually exclusive, and therefore, the concepts don't necessarily compete with each other, so maybe that's closer to what Arway meant. On a stream with wild fish that is stocked over, the concepts do compete with each other, but in Lancaster County, for instance, those ideas can co-exist peacefully. In other words stocked/wild is not an either/or; its a both/and, across the Commonwealth.



It's theoretically possible to have a stocked trout program that does not compete with wild trout.

But in PA, that's not what we have, and we're not close. Hatchery trout are very widely stocked over wild trout populations in PA, both by the PFBC, and by the coop hatcheries.

Posted on: 2013/5/2 6:53


Re: "The value of stocked trout"

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According to John Arway, the agency's executive director, there is no push within the agency to favor wild trout over stockers.

"Wild trout don't compete with stocked trout and stocked trout don't compete with wild trout," he said.

The list of "wild-trout waters" designated by the PFBC has been growing in recent years simply because biologists across the state have intensified their surveys of streams to find where wild trout are living.

Ken et al. Was at Gander Mt. This evening and ran into Dan who pointed me to this discussion. I do check on you from time to time but the job keeps me pretty busy. However, I thought I needed to weigh in on this discussion. I excerpted the above from the article and hopefully you can see that I was talking about the fact that we can have both stocked trout and wild trout fisheries in PA since we have plenty of water for both. They do not and should not be regarded as competing for funding or time. Plenty of TUers including myself fish for both. I was on Tionesta Creek last weekend with a buddy fishing for stocked trout and will be on Fishing Creek on Saturday fishing for wild trout. That was the point. If taken out of context, I can understand the confusion but I can certainly tell you that the comment was not intended to refer to wild trout/stocked trout competition in the stream. Dr. Bachman would rightfully take me to the woodshed if it did.

Tight Lines,

><(John{(°>

Posted on: 2013/5/2 22:01


Re: "The value of stocked trout"

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Well thanks John. And here I was ready to make an informative post about our discussion.
It was really nice to meet you and I liked the way you expressed some of your thoughts versus some of your dilemas. Left me feeling like "one of us" was in your position. I used to talk to Austin a bit and never got that feeling. Not bad really, just not near as good.
By the way, I loved that one report you made about when the hatcheries were still closing..."I cant just go borrow money from China"...

Posted on: 2013/5/3 5:47
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Re: "The value of stocked trout"

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Chances are if Big Poe was not stocked it would be Class A.

Posted on: 2013/5/3 17:44
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There is always time to do more to protect wild trout.






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