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Re: #1 PA Stream vs Other States

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2007/1/2 11:55
From Bozeman
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Penns was fishable the vast majority of that timeframe last year, luckily.

Even when it's not, there are plenty of others in the area, as you said.

Posted on: 2011/4/11 9:16


Re: #1 PA Stream vs Other States

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From Toona
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Fact: PA has more miles of of freshwater streams, rivers, etc., than any other state, except for Alaska. I'm happy here, for now. A lot of states out West don't have AS MANY year round fishing opportunites as we do here. Yes you can fish in the Winter, if you got the cash to pay to play on one of the Limestoners, fight the crowds at all the popular tailwaters, or visit a State that has Steelhead runs. I can do all of that in PA with the purchase of a fishing license, and no more than a 4 hour drive.

Posted on: 2011/4/11 9:49
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Re: #1 PA Stream vs Other States

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I've been all over the west and have fished some during the winter, including in Montana. Just like PA it is usually very slow during the winter 1 to 5 fish a day is a good day. Then there are the places you absolutely should go to in the west during the winter if your smart. You can get caught in a blizzard pretty quickly and never make it out. I was fishing the South Platte one nice warm January day and at about 3 quit to go have lunch. While I was eating it started snowing and it got very cold. Making the steep climb out of the valley was a very real concern. I was lucky.
Out west you have to pick and choose your spots to fish carefully during the winter, or you get burned, er frozen.

Posted on: 2011/4/11 10:36


Re: #1 PA Stream vs Other States

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I had 50 fish days on the Gallatin in january[mostly 12 to 15 inchers-and 30 fish days 0n the Yellowstone in january[15 to 20 inchers] all a matter of knowing where and when.lol
Did very little dry fly fishing out west-far to many TROUT to bother with trout.so I can't really compare east and west but I did hit the salmon fly spinner hatch a couple of times-60 plus fish averaging 14 to 15 inches so one just grins when he reads about the great 8 inch hatches in the east.
Anyone who has only fished Montana in late summer really has no insight to how good it gets.
Guides love you to come then because they usually teach or guide hunting also-don't buy the line that august mid day is as good as it gets-for them,yes-customers,you are getting the pits.small trout and warm water.

Posted on: 2011/4/11 10:55
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Re: #1 PA Stream vs Other States

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Quote:
Fact: PA has more miles of of freshwater streams, rivers, etc., than any other state, except for Alaska.

Miles in length,maybe but the Yellowstone alone has more water half of Pa..
Get the Montana guide east and west[seperate books]of the divide and you will realize the reason Penn. claims so many trout streams is they count everything whereas Montana doesn't.It is not even close.
I am just having fun here-please don't get annoyed.thanks

Posted on: 2011/4/11 11:02
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Re: #1 PA Stream vs Other States

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From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
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Quote:
Penn. claims so many trout streams is they count everything whereas Montana doesn't.It is not even close.


I realize Montana doesn't count all of the little streams, but I still don't think they'd make up the difference. We have a much wetter climate, its as simple as that. There's a few little variables, but it boils down to this: the amount of water that falls from the sky is directly related to the miles of freshwater streams. We certainly get more precipitation, thus we have a much higher density of freshwater streams. The question is, does all of Montana get as much precipitation in a year as all of PA? I'm guessing no, but could be wrong.

But even if it did, the size here we're talking is not apples to apples. You have to compare equal sizes of area, not states. So, for instance, if you took only western Montana, along the Bitterroots from the Canada border to the southernmost point, and ignored eastern Montana, then you'd have to fairly compare that to an equal sized area in the east. Options:

All of the NE, from Maine to the Mason Dixon Line.

From the PA-NY border down the Appalachian spine to and including the Smokies.

Or, something in between those 2 extremes:

From (and including) the Adirodaks to somewhere just south of Shenendoah.

Why must you do this? Because if you're trying to figure out where you'd rather live if you were a trout fishermen, if you include streams 8 hours away in the west, you have to include streams 8 hours away in the east.

Is the west bigger? Of course! But most of us are comparing # of streams within a reasonable day trip, say, 3 hours. I've fished out west. IMO, the west has some amazing rivers that the East simply can't match. But the east has a much, much higher density of streams, for those of us who want to hop in a car, drive 2 miles, and find ourselves on a completely different stream system.

Posted on: 2011/4/11 11:17


Re: #1 PA Stream vs Other States

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From Bozeman
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So basically it's a density calculation. There is no doubt in my mind that PA is more dense with trout streams.

Considering that I had a 4 hour drive to find the nearest alternate trout water when I was on the bighorn, I'd say it's pretty close to accurate. I'd have crossed a dozen watersheds supporting wild trout, and even could have come close to getting to watersheds with steelhead in that amount of time.

Besides, if we're talking all of yellowstone, you've got to realize that most of it is in Wyoming.

I love Montana, and I plan to fish it yearly for the rest of my life, but my home streams will always be in PA.

MT has plenty of beauty packed into those drives between streams. That's where PA loses big time.

Posted on: 2011/4/11 11:22


Re: #1 PA Stream vs Other States

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Quote:
There is no doubt in my mind that PA is more dense with trout streams.


Yep, its not close. Sure, Montana may have a stream in every valley, just like PA. But over that mountain to the next valley is 30 miles. Here it's often hikeable in under an hour.

Quote:
I'd have crossed a dozen watersheds supporting wild trout, and even could have come close to getting to watersheds with steelhead in that amount of time.


And thats from SE PA, a trout poor area of the state. Imagine, for instance, if you lived in State College, Lock Haven, or somewhere similar.

The yellowstone drains 70,000 square miles of land and discharges 13,773 cubic feet per second. The Susquehanna drains 27,500 square miles and discharges 40,800 cubic feet per second. So, the Susquehanna drains roughly half the area and puts out triple the water. I'd venture to say thats a pretty good indication that central PA gets about 6 times as much precip per area as the Yellowstone drainage.

I betcha if you used a consistent way to measure, the Susquehanna drainage will be about 6 times as dense with freshwater streams, and contain about 3 times as many total miles of freshwater streams. If 1/2 of those miles (seems about right) contain wild trout, it's still more wild trout miles than the yellowstone system could possibly have.

Quote:
MT has plenty of beauty packed into those drives between streams.


Agreed.

Posted on: 2011/4/11 11:55


Re: #1 PA Stream vs Other States

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Trout water pat-not muskies-lol
I don't know,just trying to liven things up but I do know Montana has many hundreds of streams that
have trout but get no play except at the mouth-mainly because they are called East,West,South and north rattlesnake creeks-prickly pear creek,etc. so why bother.lol
You can smell those danged snakes.
Some places such as Gallatin canyon has no rattlesnakes because its mainly granite.
Other river drainages are LOADED with them because its soft rock.You quickly learn which is which.
Unfortunately I never made it to the Big Horn.

Posted on: 2011/4/11 13:05
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Re: #1 PA Stream vs Other States

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Quote:
Trout water pat-not muskies-lol


Correct. The Susquehanna DRAINAGE is full of trout water, not the river itself.

We have plenty of water that gets very little play too, though our larger waters generally get plenty of crowds. Yes, we have more of a crowd problem than Montana. Although, I remember fishing Henry's Fork and it was every bit as crowded anywhere in PA outside of Erie County.

Posted on: 2011/4/11 13:10


Re: #1 PA Stream vs Other States

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From Bozeman
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I went to a small jump-across spring creek with rattlesnake warning signs everywhere out there. Didn't really worry me.

Posted on: 2011/4/11 13:14


Re: #1 PA Stream vs Other States

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2006/9/9 10:36
From Philadelphia, PA
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Glad to hear a lot of these opinions. Makes me more optimistic about my future days fishing in PA.

And yes, I misread Jay's comment about "regardless of conditions", my mistake.

Clearly, I need to spend more time in central PA ... and evidently much of it on Penn's (which I've yet to fish having opted to fish Spring or Fishing last two times I was in the area).


Posted on: 2011/4/12 12:09
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Re: #1 PA Stream vs Other States

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2008/1/20 12:28
From Seattle, WA
Posts: 5
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Quote:


The yellowstone drains 70,000 square miles of land and discharges 13,773 cubic feet per second. The Susquehanna drains 27,500 square miles and discharges 40,800 cubic feet per second. So, the Susquehanna drains roughly half the area and puts out triple the water. I'd venture to say thats a pretty good indication that central PA gets about 6 times as much precip per area as the Yellowstone drainage.

I betcha if you used a consistent way to measure, the Susquehanna drainage will be about 6 times as dense with freshwater streams, and contain about 3 times as many total miles of freshwater streams. If 1/2 of those miles (seems about right) contain wild trout, it's still more wild trout miles than the yellowstone system could possibly have.


Being from WA State but originally from PA, I'll add that the Columbia River Basin is much more massive than the Susquehanna and has pretty good trout fishing though not in the same league as the MT or ID rivers who are also in the Columbia drainage. The drainage is 258,000 sq miles, nearly 10X that of the the Susquehanna, with an average discharge of 265,000 cfs. We have good year round fishing through most of the State but the Salmon and Steelhead fisheries on many rivers aren't anywhere near what they used to be but there are still plenty of fish to be had though a lot are hatchery fish. Here in Western WA we can also fish year round in Puget Sound, another big body of water, where Sea Run Cutthroat Trout fishing from the beach is really good and is fairly unheralded.

Posted on: 2011/4/15 23:42


Re: #1 PA Stream vs Other States

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2006/9/9 10:36
From Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 747
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Quote:

brookie_hunter wrote:
We have good year round fishing through most of the State but the Salmon and Steelhead fisheries on many rivers aren't anywhere near what they used to be but there are still plenty of fish to be had though a lot are hatchery fish.


I've read this several places recently. What exactly is the issue? And how far does it extend? Are the rivers in southern WA and in OR experiencing the same decline?

I was under the impression that salmon/steelhead rivers both north and south of NW WA (both in BC and OR/southern WA) doing quite well, but perhaps I'm mistaken.

Posted on: 2011/4/16 22:33



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