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Sulfur’s in April?

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2006/12/3 21:01
From Mechanicsburg, Pa
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I was fishing Spring Creek yesterday when a large yellow mayfly drifted past me struggling to take flight. Has anyone else ever seen this in April? I saw small Caddis ( molted brown wings black body) in the Benner Section. I am assuming they were stunted Grannoms but not sure.

Posted on: 4/8 8:25


Re: Sulfur’s in April?

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2010/9/1 13:55
From State College PA
Posts: 212
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al,
one robin does not make a spring (old polish saying).. or one mayfly does not make a hatch. This is common if you are out on the water a lot. I saw one sulphur on the upper J in february this year.
Those are not grannoms. They are sedges. Internet sites (and flyshop sites too!) have premature declarations of grannoms a week or so before they pop. The sedges have all black bodies and are smaller. The grannoms have a mottled black/light body and are larger

Posted on: 4/8 8:57


Re: Sulfur’s in April?

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Also Spring Creeks in general will see sporadic activity that doesn't exactly "make sense" when it comes to bugs.

Posted on: 4/8 9:19


Re: Sulfur’s in April?
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A common early caddis hatch in PA is the chimarra, which is a small black caddis adult.

https://bugguide.net/node/view/38313


Posted on: 4/8 10:14


Re: Sulfur’s in April?

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2013/10/29 14:04
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I agree that the small caddis were probably not Grannoms. But I have a problem with Nymphingmaniac's statements:

"Those are not grannoms. They are sedges."

The word sedge, in this usage, is a common name for members of the order Trichoptera. In other words a synonym of "caddis". So the statements are the equivalent of:

"Those are not german shepards. They are dogs."

Perhaps the caddis in question were Chimarra.

Oops, I now see that afish beat me to the id.

Posted on: 4/8 10:23


Re: Sulfur’s in April?

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From Mechanicsburg, Pa
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A weird evolutionary quark. Didn’t think it was part of a hatch was just curious to see if anyone else might have observed, specifically on Spring Creek. I think what I saw was a grannom based on the attached photo.

Attach file:



jpeg  6D4B2124-398D-4DEE-A279-C25B714146C5.jpeg (28.44 KB)
330_5cab79a47fa7b.jpeg 350X280 px

png  E5F291AD-445C-4E11-ACEC-2E679FFB395D.png (106.30 KB)
330_5cab79bbb3767.png 180X320 px

Posted on: 4/8 12:41


Re: Sulfur’s in April?
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Quote:

albud1962 wrote:
A weird evolutionary quark. Didn’t think it was part of a hatch was just curious to see if anyone else might have observed, specifically on Spring Creek. I think what I saw was a grannom based on the attached photo.


I've seen several reports about grannoms hatching on several streams. It's just a bout that time for it to happen, so I would guess they were grannoms.

TCO has reported grannoms are hatching on Spring >

Grannoms are on lower Spring moving up into canyon

http://www.streamconditions.com/Strea ... cfm?stream=Spring%20Creek

Spring has sprung....get busy!!

Posted on: 4/8 15:43


Re: Sulfur’s in April?

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Why isn't this thread part of "Timing for Spring Hatches"? or visa/versa.


Posted on: 4/8 16:03
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Re: Sulfur’s in April?
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Quote:

PennypackFlyer wrote:
Why isn't this thread part of "Timing for Spring Hatches"?


Because it preceded the thread about timing.

Moreover, it deals with a specific situation and matter of insect identification. There's nothing wrong with starting a fresh thread that deals with something specific, rather than situating it into an older thread that covers the subject more broadly.

Frankly, it's a bit of a judgement call. Sometimes if a fresh thread deals with the same topic, or asks a question that is already addressed in a fairly fresh thread somewhere else. . . I'll notify the OP to check out the other thread. Sometimes not. In the meantime, we'll leave it be.

I'll probably move it over to the Hatch and Entomology forum once interest moves on to other threads.
DW


Posted on: 4/8 16:28


Re: Sulfur’s in April?

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If you see good numbers of a caddis you think are Grannoms, flip over a lot of rocks in the riffles of the stream.

If there are Grannoms there, you will see the cases on the rocks. The Grannom cases are totally distinctive. No other caddis have cases like that.

On Spring Creek you will find lots of Grannom cases from Bellefonte to the mouth. It's common to find a half dozen or so on one rock.

Above Bellefonte on Spring Creek I have never seen a Grannom case. Not even one.

Greg Hoover, an entomologist at Penn State, said that there are some Grannoms in Spring Creek above Bellefonte, at least as far up as Rock Road, but he said they occur there in very low numbers.

There have been a lot of small, dark caddis lately on Spring Creek. They are smaller than Grannoms and they start hatching earlier.

The Grannoms start later than these smaller caddis, but there is an overlap when you see both around.





Posted on: 4/8 17:41


Re: Sulfur’s in April?

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At the Little J clean up on Saturday, I asked Bill Andersen when will we see the red buds, and he stated 10 days. The grannom hatch coincides with the red bud trees. April 16th should be the beginning of the grannom hatch on the Little J.

Posted on: 4/8 21:49


Re: Sulfur’s in April?

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From Tioga co. formerly of bucks co.
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dark flies in spring, light flies in summer, dark again in fall-winter

Posted on: 4/9 8:51
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Re: Sulfur’s in April?
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Quote:

troutbert wrote:
If you see good numbers of a caddis you think are Grannoms, flip over a lot of rocks in the riffles of the stream.

If there are Grannoms there, you will see the cases on the rocks. The Grannom cases are totally distinctive. No other caddis have cases like that.

On Spring Creek you will find lots of Grannom cases from Bellefonte to the mouth. It's common to find a half dozen or so on one rock.

Above Bellefonte on Spring Creek I have never seen a Grannom case. Not even one.

Greg Hoover, an entomologist at Penn State, said that there are some Grannoms in Spring Creek above Bellefonte, at least as far up as Rock Road, but he said they occur there in very low numbers.

There have been a lot of small, dark caddis lately on Spring Creek. They are smaller than Grannoms and they start hatching earlier.

The Grannoms start later than these smaller caddis, but there is an overlap when you see both around.



^ excellent info and advice.

Check out a pic of grannom cases below >

I post this just about every spring on here:

The following is some great info about PA grannoms posted on Troutnut by Lloyd Gonzales the author of Fly-fishing Pressured Water (a good book to read in itself) >

Grannom, American Grannom, Shadfly, Apple Caddis, Mother's Day Caddis, and Black Caddis are all common names applied to Brachycentrus species. Mother's Day Caddis is the most common Western nickname for Brachycentrus occidentalis, a Western "grannom," but I have also heard this name applied generally to "grannoms" here in the East.

In PA, it is useful to think of "dark grannoms" and "light grannoms." The species your flies are imitating are more typical of the dark grannoms. The "apple caddis" is a light grannom. Most of the important (PA) Brachycentrus species have overlapping hatch periods, so either dark or light imitations (or both) can be called for, depending on the stream.

Here's my current breakdown for important PA species:

Brachycentrus numerosus--Penn's Creek Caddisfly, Dark Grannom, Dark Shadfly; adults have dark-mottled wings and dark blackish green bodies; pupae usually dark with green lateral stripes and dark wingcases.

Brachycentrus lateralis--Striped Grannom, Dark Grannom, Black Caddis; adults have dark wings and pupae are typically dark olive with tan lateral stripes and dark wingcases.

Brachycentrus nigrosoma--Little Dark Grannom, Little Black Caddis; adults/pupae are smaller and darker than numerosus.

Brachycentrus appalachia--Apple Caddis, Light Shadfly, Light Grannom; adults have very light tannish or grayish wings (almost white when freshly emerged) and apple green bodies; pupae are apple green with tan wingcases.

(Brachycentrus solomoni and incanu are also found in PA. B. solomoni is very similar to numerosus, and incanu is rather rare.)

Most "grannom" activity in PA occurs from mid-April to mid-May. During that time, if you carry imitations of dark and light grannoms (adults and pupae) in sizes #14-16, you should have most bases covered.

You are right that the adult imitations are seldom very good during the emergence (pupa or emerger patterns are best). During the egg-laying activity, however, they are often very effective. The fish may prefer skittered, dead-drifted, or wet adult imitations depending upon the concentrations around their lies.




Attach file:



jpg  grannom cases.jpg (98.30 KB)
53_5cac9811ec139.jpg 700X478 px

Posted on: 4/9 9:03


Re: Sulfur’s in April?

Joined:
2006/9/21 0:02
From Pittsburgh
Posts: 1244
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I have seen sulphers hatch - and caught fish on them - in april before. Usually nothing heavy - but just enough to get some fish taking them in certain spots.

However, I distinctly remember the unusual spring of 2012.
After a very mild winter, the weather warmed up quickly in march.
Had like a whole week with temps in the '80's.
Forsythias and daffodils were in full bloom in my yard on St Patricks Day.
Grannoms hatched on the little j the last week of march.
And sulphers hatched well on spring creek opening day weekend.

You never know

Posted on: 4/9 20:23


Re: Sulfur’s in April?

Joined:
2006/12/3 21:01
From Mechanicsburg, Pa
Posts: 224
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Quote:

afishinado wrote
^ excellent info and advice.

Check out a pic of grannom cases below >

I post this just about every spring on here:

The following is some great info about PA grannoms posted on Troutnut by Lloyd Gonzales the author of Fly-fishing Pressured Water (a good book to read in itself) >

Grannom, American Grannom, Shadfly, Apple Caddis, Mother's Day Caddis, and Black Caddis are all common names applied to Brachycentrus species. Mother's Day Caddis is the most common Western nickname for Brachycentrus occidentalis, a Western "grannom," but I have also heard this name applied generally to "grannoms" here in the East.

In PA, it is useful to think of "dark grannoms" and "light grannoms." The species your flies are imitating are more typical of the dark grannoms. The "apple caddis" is a light grannom. Most of the important (PA) Brachycentrus species have overlapping hatch periods, so either dark or light imitations (or both) can be called for, depending on the stream.

Here's my current breakdown for important PA species:

Brachycentrus numerosus--Penn's Creek Caddisfly, Dark Grannom, Dark Shadfly; adults have dark-mottled wings and dark blackish green bodies; pupae usually dark with green lateral stripes and dark wingcases.

Brachycentrus lateralis--Striped Grannom, Dark Grannom, Black Caddis; adults have dark wings and pupae are typically dark olive with tan lateral stripes and dark wingcases.

Brachycentrus nigrosoma--Little Dark Grannom, Little Black Caddis; adults/pupae are smaller and darker than numerosus.

Brachycentrus appalachia--Apple Caddis, Light Shadfly, Light Grannom; adults have very light tannish or grayish wings (almost white when freshly emerged) and apple green bodies; pupae are apple green with tan wingcases.

(Brachycentrus solomoni and incanu are also found in PA. B. solomoni is very similar to numerosus, and incanu is rather rare.)

Most "grannom" activity in PA occurs from mid-April to mid-May. During that time, if you carry imitations of dark and light grannoms (adults and pupae) in sizes #14-16, you should have most bases covered.

You are right that the adult imitations are seldom very good during the emergence (pupa or emerger patterns are best). During the egg-laying activity, however, they are often very effective. The fish may prefer skittered, dead-drifted, or wet adult imitations depending upon the concentrations around their lies.





Great info! Thanks!

Posted on: 4/9 21:51



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