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So what is this...?

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2013/4/1 18:33
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Looking at nymphs under a few rocks and found these. I'm new and Not a clue what they are....


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Posted on: 2013/5/5 16:43


Re: So what is this...?

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From Along the Lehigh Above the Gap
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I saw a few of these the other day. I just thought cranefly larva, or a type of caddis? Someone enlighten both of us.

Posted on: 2013/5/6 19:32
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Re: So what is this...?
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Posted on: 2013/5/7 7:18
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Re: So what is this...?

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If I had to guess, I'd say mudpuppy eggs.

Where were they at? (county or river watershed is sufficient, as mudpuppies not present everywhere, and answer could rule them out).

Posted on: 2013/5/7 8:59


Re: So what is this...?
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Quote:

pcray1231 wrote:
If I had to guess, I'd say mudpuppy eggs.

Where were they at? (county or river watershed is sufficient, as mudpuppies not present everywhere, and answer could rule them out).



Wow! Never would have guessed that. Check this out.

Posted on: 2013/5/7 9:05


Re: So what is this...?

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Well, when you realize they are obviously eggs, but they don't look like fish eggs, it kinda narrows down the choices....

I started with frog or toad eggs based on the gelatin like appearance. But they usually don't lay them mid-stream under rocks. And when you can see the tadpoles inside, they are usually much darker colored, and never so long and skinny and worm like.

That took me to salamanders. Under mid-stream rocks means aquatic salamandars. Hellbenders lay and hatch in the fall, mudpuppies in the spring, so.....

Mudpuppies are extremely common, where they exist. But largely confined to Western PA. Ohio and Erie watersheds. Hence the location question. If in the Susquehanna or Delaware drainages, they can't be mudpuppies.

Posted on: 2013/5/7 9:16


Re: So what is this...?

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pcray: Northampton County so not but Thank you for laying out how came to Mudpuppy-- That is useful

Posted on: 2013/5/7 15:17


Re: So what is this...?

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Well, I do know mudpuppies have now invaded the Hudson via the Erie Canal. They'd do quite well in the Delaware and Lehigh systems, I think. They're not native there, and I haven't seen anything that they made it there, but I don't exactly keep up on these things. It certainly wouldn't surprise me.

Perhaps you should show your picture to the PFBC, with location, and ask for an ID.

Or, it could be something else. I just can't quite imagine what.

Posted on: 2013/5/7 16:40


Re: So what is this...?

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What I saw was not a cluster on a rock, but just 1 or two in my seine net. You obviously know where I live. Lehigh Delaware drainage.

Posted on: 2013/5/7 16:45
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Re: So what is this...?

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I'll revise my guess to spring salamander eggs, which are in that area. Some type of salamander, anyway.

Posted on: 2013/5/7 20:06


Re: So what is this...?

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From Tioga co. formerly of bucks co.
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Pat i looked up salamander eggs and would have to say no. salamader eggs wouls have a devolping salamander (in color) with tail and legs. they look like the larva stage of a insect, just not sure yet. maybe a beetle of some sorts.

Posted on: 2013/5/10 6:15
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Re: So what is this...?

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You wouldn't see legs in salamander larva. They have legless tadpoles like a frog does. They tend to be longer and skinnier than frog tadpoles. More like minnows, not the "sphere with a tail".

I'm certainly not sure, it's just my guess. They look like amphibian eggs to me.

The trouble with the salamander angle is where they were found. This looks like a midstream rock with some current. Most salamanders lay their eggs in vernal pools, tiny spring seeps, or, at the very least, nearly current-less backwaters. Also you are narrowed by season. Most salamanders breed in late summer/fall. Some lay eggs shortly thereafter, while others keep the eggs internal overwinter and then lay in the spring.

I still like the idea of mudpuppies, as they do lay midstream in current like that, attached to the bottom of rocks just like that, and the eggs look to be of appropriate size. The timing is also perfect for the ones I have seen. I have seen many mudpuppy egg masses, they are downright common in places (NW PA). And they look just like that. I was confident until I found out the drainage. Supposedly, no mudpuppies in the drainage.

Hellbender eggs actually look similar, and there are hellbenders there. But they lay and hatch in the fall. Further, their lairs are typically much larger, it's not just a little ledge under a rock, it's like a freakin cave. And it'd be unusual to approach an egg bearing lair in daytime without seeing the guardian.

There are a lot of varieties of smaller salamanders and I'm not familiar with all of their egg laying habits. As I said, vernal pools, spring seeps, etc. are more common.



Posted on: 2013/5/10 11:47


Re: So what is this...?

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Trouble is thefocus is way out and I don't know what I'm looking at. Maybe frog eggs or another form of amphibian

Posted on: 2013/5/15 18:17
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