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Re: why all the hate?

Joined:
2006/9/13 22:36
From Tioga co. formerly of bucks co.
Posts: 5563
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Orvis has been good to me, worked for them..and there stuff is good too. I think they are better than loomis and sage with the rods.. some things seem a little high but remember they have always sold to the elight..remeber back in the day only the rich could afford to fly fish or wingshoot..The rest of us common folks shot or fish for food not sport..L.L.Bean was the common mans place to get or Percy's Flie's...So its imprinted in some peoples heads that Orvis is the Devil...

Posted on: 2008/3/31 8:09
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Re: why all the hate?
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Joined:
2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
Posts: 9005
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Many equate Orvis with the rather recent advent of big-box stores dominating retailing. I find it hard to believe that some people have disdain for an American Company that has been in business selling fly-fishing and outdoor gear for over 150 years. A company-owned Orvis store is right in my neighborhood, and I buy some stuff from them, mostly when I find a sale. IMO, they have some good stuff and not so good stuff, and tend to be overpriced on some of their merchandise, but most FF stuff is overpriced.

The one thing about Orvis is that many independent fly shops carry Orvis brand merchandise and sell it for the same price as Orvis does, unlike Cabela’s or Bass Pro shops which directly compete with the fly shops with their proprietary store brands as well as selling all name-brand merchandise.

I try to buy good stuff that will perform well and last a long time, and I try to buy it for best price possible. I’ve found from experience that buying decent stuff that performs well, lasts, and has a good warranty that is backed up by the retailer, is in the long run the most economical. Also, with that being said, the highest priced stuff is not always the best stuff. Sometimes Orvis stuff fits the bill, sometimes not.

I suppose someone driving a Lexus or BMW would cause some people to have the same reaction. I really don’t care what other people drive, or what brand of FF stuff they use, but I am sometimes puzzled by why people care about such things. BTW, for those that do care, I drive a Toyota truck (I also have a ’90 Chevy pick-up in my driveway) fish mostly Sage rods, and have an Orvis vest pack and waders– they perform well, last a long time, are backed up by the manufacturer, and I got them for the best price possible.

Posted on: 2008/3/31 9:20


Re: why all the hate?

Joined:
2006/9/10 20:44
From Room 109
Posts: 3135
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I thought about quitting my job and buying a business in a very rural part of PA that was for sale. She said that I was too much of a city slicker to last more than a month in such a place. I retorted that I could fish more often. She replied that I would go nutz with out good specialty food stores and a bar that carried more than two micro brews. She is right; I could not see myself living in a place that did not have a Hotdog joint, Thai, Indian, and a kick butt beer distributor than 15 min from the house. I mean I drink and eat more than I fish.


How does one determine if a person is a city slicker when on the stream? I rarely carry Pad Thai when on the stream or any take out for that matter. Maybe my waders smell like curry? No, that is just my own funk. Hummmm, maybe people are glassing me to see what type of rod I am holding? Maybe it was the time I had Gino’s Pizza deliver a Pizza to the Delayed Harvest section of the Loyalhanna?

Now I am going to be extremely self conscience when I am fishing those wild trout streams in the ANF. Please tell use how the miscreants look so that I may a least avoid looking like one. Maybe they are clean shaven ????



Posted on: 2008/3/31 10:12
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Re: why all the hate?

Joined:
2006/9/10 21:53
From Greensburg, PA
Posts: 13624
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Bruno if you'd just stop asking if "Yinz caitchin' any trot N'at?" they wouldn't look at you so funny...

Posted on: 2008/3/31 10:18


Re: why all the hate?

Joined:
2006/9/23 0:52
From Lock Haven, PA
Posts: 478
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I almost guarantee I could pick out a city slicker by just looking at them so I won't need to smell ya. I went to the Prudential building in Boston and in the observation tower they have a game to pick out the foreign people and the United States citizens and I aced the test. My friend was amazed but I guess thats just how redneck I am.

Come to think of it I own 2 Orvis products. I bought an Orvis vest because it was the closest thing to my old vest and I have Orvis boots mainly for the warantee. I've returned them several times and everytime I get a new pair without question. Their other products just don't impress me and I can usually find stuff that suits my needs better offered from other companies. I'm not brand loyal to any company though. Each company has their stand out products and I go for what suits my fishing needs for the best possible price.

Posted on: 2008/3/31 12:52


Re: why all the hate?

Joined:
2008/3/20 22:15
Posts: 1789
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Well that's quite a talent but not quite as fun as it is for picking out redneck fly fishermen. They're much harder to detect with their deer antler decals, camo and smell of pork rinds.

Too bad Orvis hasn't picked up a camo line. I find it highly effective. Pork rinds float if you should drop them and the massive buck decals draw attention away from me possibly having a G.Loomis or Sage in my car.

I'm sorry but my kid has all sorts of nice stuff and still wears either some stupid plaid shorts or fuzzy pajama bottoms under his waders with hunting socks and flip flops or hunting boots until he hits the water. BIG buck decal on the car and he does catch fish!!

I don't think yinz should worry about what he wears, especially if he brings the beer.

Posted on: 2008/3/31 19:02


Re: why all the hate?

Joined:
2006/10/26 23:01
From Ohio
Posts: 657
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When I lived in a small town, I went fishing to meet up with people and it was almost always a soicial event. When I moved to a big city, I started going fishing to get away from people. Thats also when I started shopping at Orvis and lost my "If you can't get it at Wal-Mart you don't really need it." attitude.

Posted on: 2008/4/1 21:37


Re: why all the hate?

Joined:
2006/9/11 12:00
Posts: 275
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From what I can tell, now at least, is the marketing that Orvis uses to sell their stuff. The write-ups seem naievely overblown. Too much name dropping: "When you are having the fishing day of your life on the Madison River" Stuff like that is just repulsive to my sensibilities as a fly fisherman who knows his way around a floodplain. It seems to appeal to the once-in-a-while vacationing sport who really likes the IDEA of flyfishing and the dinner there after, but isn't an up-to-you-armpits type fisherman. Where Simms and Sage and Ross, top of the line manufacturers, they project that they are more for the blood and guts fisherman, the guy who knows his stuff: cowboy types: silent and strong, enduring endless rain or sun to hook a fish. They go as much for the guides as the hard core weekend angler. With that, they set the precedent that the more casual, well heeled anglers glom onto. Orvis marketing seems to appeal to the more clueless sport who trips along lightly, getting told by the guide what to do and rejoyces at the few fish caught; people who like the boat ride as much as the fish. I'm a science person, so it's hard for me to put my finger on something as indirect and soft as marketing, but this is what I've gathered.
Syl

Posted on: 2008/4/1 23:20


Re: why all the hate?

Joined:
2006/9/23 0:52
From Lock Haven, PA
Posts: 478
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Sylvaneous...nicely put.

Posted on: 2008/4/2 9:04


Re: why all the hate?

Joined:
2007/10/31 12:45
From ligonier, pa
Posts: 14
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I don't think it's really fair to bash the entire Orvis catalog....okay, I do agree the overpriced dog beds are ridiculous. I've been buying puffy beds for my two, aging, English setters at Farm and Fleet, or is it Tractor Supply, now for years. Yes, I spoil my bird dogs to no end. Spent $600 for Patch in 2000: best money I ever spent, along with the $425 for a Sage LL in '97 or so.
All manufacturers have that "Sweet Spot" in their gear offerings. Not too expensive, good quality, and excellent warranty. I know that the Pro Guide waders are one of the best values in the Orvis lineup. Had a pair of the PG2s that I wore for years....but to get the proper foot size I had to buy the XL: result? Water would fill up in the knee areas and I had 'ballon legs'. Then again the extra weight helped anchor me in fast water on the Yough.
I wrote/emailed them a few times, and apparently many others did and Orvis came out with alternate bootie sizes. What a great idea. Hell, I'm only 6', about 180, with a size 12 foot. Haven't checked out the new PG3s, but when my Patagonias finally die I certainly will. I mean, really the PG3s run, what about $350: this price point slams Simms and their $600 waders.
Hey, Jack M, I have 2 of the CFOs, the old school green model and the newer, bronze/champagne model. Love 'em both!! None of that large-arbor crap for this guy. Got the newer one dirt cheap from some salt-water outfit in Mass. who was dumping them because no one uses the smaller models in his area.
As always, wait for the new gear to come out, then wait till the off season and clean up on good gear. Same with the golf industry.
Mark

Posted on: 2008/4/2 9:33


Re: why all the hate?

Joined:
2008/1/21 19:15
From Pittsburgh
Posts: 2720
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It's a business...they are in the business to make money. That is what retail is plain and simple. Each company has their target audience and core customers. When you find your niche...whether it it die hard anglers or city slickers...that is where your money comes from. BUT...most niches are only "percieved" as it is only marketing!

As most people on this site have suggested...you try the merchandise...you cast the rod before you buy...you try on the waders for comfort...etc. I own a couple orvis rods because I liked them more than the other rods I casted and could afford them at the time. I think some people are buying into the marketing and turning that into a negative (or positive) depending on how the marketing reflects their lifestyle. Make your own decision by looking only at your interaction with the merchandise (not the perception or marketing) and determine if you think it is worth it to you!

Posted on: 2008/4/2 10:15


Re: why all the hate?

Joined:
2006/9/10 21:53
From Greensburg, PA
Posts: 13624
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Remember that Orvis is not just a big box, if you can even call it that...many smaller fly shops depend on Orvis product sales for their livelihood. The shop in downtown Greensburg and the one in Murrysville (both now closed) were Orvis shops. But also open now, are the one in Ligonier and the International Anger in Pittsburgh...They ar Orvis "authorized dealers" and being lised in every Orvis literature is pretty good advertising for a small business. The guy that fixes my chainsaw and lawn mower has a big Stihl sign out front and can be found by looking up "dealers near you" on stihl's web site...Its not like we're talking about Walmart...and they are made in the USA, right?

Posted on: 2008/4/2 10:49


Re: why all the hate?

Joined:
2007/1/2 11:55
From Bozeman
Posts: 19931
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Zenriver,

I am the EXACT same build. Many people I know are too. I wonder why our wader size is considered so odd? Good on orvis for making the the alternate bootie sizes available. Perhaps I'll check a pair out. My waders never fit right.

Posted on: 2008/4/2 10:55


Re: why all the hate?

Joined:
2006/9/23 0:52
From Lock Haven, PA
Posts: 478
Offline
Are those PG3s even Gortex? If they aren't I'd have more faith in the Sims but I'd never pay that much for waders that I know I'm just going to put a hole in eventually. I was never impressed with the Orvis line of waders, just not my style. As far as someone being an Orvis dealer I think that is a positive thing as long as you endource other brands as well. I know Flyfishers Paradise in State College is an Orvis dealer but they also have a variety of other brands, G-Loomis, Sage, etc. Now when it comes to boots and waders all they have I believe is Orvis. I buy what best suits my needs and I agree try everything out that you can before you buy it. Someone that has Orvis boots, waders, rods, reels, vests, line, hat, shirt, etc just is too sucked up into the brand name in my opinion and those are the people that make others hate Orvis products I think. Its over kill and in my opinion no one company can possibly produce the best products for all my needs unless they would put me in charge of the company. We'd have some Orvis camo shirts then if I was in charge (they might exist I just haven't seen them before)! Come to think of it I feel Orvis is kind of like the upland game bird hunters that just stroll through the field stop mind morning for a tea break. I'd kill to bring one of those guys along on a deer drive with our crew. Or one of those guys that pay for the hunts and sit in a shed to shoot their deer and say what a hard hunt it was. They wouldn't last one drive with our crew. There's an uppidy feeling that Orvis gives off. Its not a hardcore feeling. Sage, G-Loomis, Sims all have a much more hardcore diehard fisherman feel.

Posted on: 2008/4/2 13:25


Re: why all the hate?

Joined:
2006/10/26 23:01
From Ohio
Posts: 657
Offline
I'll have to say when my wife went shopping for waders last year it was obvious Orvis had the best sizing and selection for women by quite a long shot. They are by far her favaorite brand, whereas I could take them or leave them.

Posted on: 2008/4/2 18:59



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