Questions on 4 piece rods

[NorthBranch]

Hi everybody,

I'm an old fly fisherman from way back, but have gotten away from it for about the last 10 years or so. However, as I close in on retirement, I'm going to get back into it... at least a little bit.

Anyhow, my wife broke (with vacuum cleaner) my old rod that I built many years ago (nice 8' 6" Dale Clemens 5wt with Fuji Sic guides). So, I'm looking to replace it with a relatively inexpensive rod to start with. I really like a 2 piece rod, and back in my day, 3 piece and 4 piece rods were not readily available, and were not considered as good as 2 piece rods. Obviously, that has changed.

I've been looking at the St. Croix 905.2 Imperial rod. However, the 9' 5wt 4 piece Winston Passport has my interest too, but again I'm unsure on the 4 piece. Obviously, I understand the advantage of storing the rods on trips and that... but that's not a concern for me.

Now for the questions...

Do you guys have many issues with sections of your 4 piece rods coming lose (in the middle of a cast of course LOL)? Also, do the 4 piece rod have different casting characteristics compared to the same rod in 2 piece. Back in my day, it had a significant impact.

Thanks for any help for this old-timer.

 

[Heritage-Angler]

NB - Rod technology has progressed a lot. The only great advantage of a 2pc rod is speed of assembly. If you use parafin wax on the ferrules, and keep them clean, a 4pc rod is the way to go.

St. Croix makes good rods, but at that price point, the Passport is untouchable. Not the best of hardware, but that blank is incredible! It'd be a good idea to test cast both - everyone's tastes are different...

 

[NorthBranch]

Thanks Heritage-Angler,

Yea, I'd like to test cast both, but it's not likely that I will find any place withing driving distance that will have both rods. I'm going to call around and see.

I know that I do like a faster action rod, and the St. Croix Imperial "seems" to fit that bill. I suspect that the Passport will be a little more moderate in action, and the reviews on the Passport that I've read have been generally positive. Of course, as you said... casting them is only way to tell for sure. Not sure if that's going to be possible, but we'll see.

Just curious, why is the 4 piece the way to go?

Thanks again.

 

[Heritage-Angler]

NorthBranch wrote:
Just curious, why is the 4 piece the way to go?

From a performance standpoint, there is no difference. From a convenience standpoint, there's a significant difference.


You can always leave the 4pc in a "2pc" configuration for ease and speed of assembly. I don't like to leave my 4pc rods like that for too long, though. You run the risk of the sections getting stuck.


A lot of rods have assembly "dots" on the ends of ferrules. This makes assembly and alignment a piece of cake. You can also add them to any rod that doesn't have them with an appropriate color Sharpie and some Sally Hansen's Hard as Nails. They even make silver and gold Sharpies - looks factory done.


A 9' 2pc has at least a 54" rod tube. It's a lot easier to hide a 30" tube from a 4pc rod. Keeps prying eyes away from your gear. Should you ever have a chance to travel, a 4pc rod is easier to deal with.


Lastly, a lot of rods are only available in 4pc configuration. Choosing to stay with the 2pc configuration will limit your options.

 

[NorthBranch]

Makes sense... thanks!

 

[Heritage-Angler]

Dave - Cabela's carries both St. Croix and Winston, and they'll let you test cast both. They have a pond alongside the store, too.

I'd call to make sure they have both rods before I drove out there though. The Passport sells like hotcakes, and is often hard to find.

Testing both rods with your reel might be beneficial as well. I don't think you'd wind up with a bad rod with either of those choices.

Good Luck!

 

[NorthBranch]

Thanks man!

The Cabela's is about an hour and a half ride from my place... pretty long ride for sure. I'm going to call a place up here close to me (Fishing Creek Outfitters) tomorrow. They handle both St. Croix and Winston rods.. probably won't have what I want... but I'll give it a try.

Anyhow, I was reading more here in the forums about the Passport. Found the info on the plastic locking nut and end cap... not what I wanted to hear? I wonder if it's a concern other than aesthetics? Maybe Winston has changed them?

 

[Heritage-Angler]

Don't know if it's plastic - I doubt it, and I've seen that particular rod. The owner doesn't abuse it, but he does use it a lot. It looks like the plating is coming off, not an anodizing problem.

Regardless, it's got a lifetime warranty. I haven't heard anything about this happening to anyone else....

 

[NorthBranch]

Heritage-Angler,

Thought I would give you an update on this considering you were cool enough to take the time to help out.

Anyhow, I got a chance to compare the Imperial and an Avid one evening during the week, and got a chance to compare the Passport tonight after work. The Avid was a nice rod, but the action was too moderate for my liking... I'm not patient enough to wait on the rod. The Imperial and the Passport were very close in my opinion. The Passport did seem like a slightly "smoother" rod than the Imperial, and a bit more accurate out to about 50'. However, the Imperial seemed like a bit more powerful rod beyond 50', and certainly suitable for more in close work. All of the rods were certainly nice when it came to fit and finish for their price range.

Being that the rod is going to do double duty for trout, and on the river (Susky) for some small mouth fishing, I went with the 2 piece Imperial. The ability to reach out there further will help on the river. Of course, it didn't hurt that I got a great price on the Imperial, and call me corny, but I like the fact that the Imperial is Made in the USA.

With that said, the Passport did impress me enough that I'm considering an 8' 4wt Passport for more dedicated, finesse Trout fishing, especially because I can throw it in my pack on the back of the ATV to hit some neat spots we can get to.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[Heritage-Angler]

NB - You're very welcome for the little bit I helped. Your evaluation of the rods was very accurate! Obviously, this isn't your first rodeo. ;-)

Those were some nice rods you tested - glad you found the one that works for you. I also appreciate you letting me know how things worked out for you, and I hope you'll be a regular contributor on the forum. Sounds like you've got some good knowledge to share.

H.A.

 

[NorthBranch]

Thanks H.A.

Yea, my first rodeo with a fly rod started back in 1963 when I was twelve. Learned a lot on my own, but I did have some great help along the way from some excellent fly fisherman.

I'm enjoying the forum, and will certainly try and contribute where I can. Although, I'm a bit behind the times with all this "furled leader" and other new stuff... but I'll catch up. :lol:

 

[krayfish]

Sorry to butt in but here I go. Wsender won an Imperial last year at the Catskill JAM. I believe he's happy with it.

Years ago, you might have seen a difference in performance between a 2 and 4 pc rod. Not the case now. It's easier to transport a 4pc though.

** Disclaimer ** Not a rep or expert on St Croix products but own 4 of them.

The Imperial is a fast action rod that uses almost the same blank and technology as the old Legend Ultra. As a matter of fact, the model fished so well and the price point was so much lower, they did away with the Ultra line up. Ask anyone that has cast one of them and you'll get great reviews. Light, fast and a great all around rod. Made in the USA and great product support. I can't see how you could go wrong with the product.

If you've been out of fly fishing for a while, you may find the Passport a little bit more on the user friendly side due to a slightly more moderate action. Now, do you pick easier to use or one that you might "grow" into as your casting comes back to you? I can't answer that.... you'll have to.

To answer your question from earlier... I've seen 2 and 4 pc rods come apart while casting. It's typically the users fault for not making sure they were snug.

Hope some of that useless info helps.

 

[NorthBranch]

Thanks krayfish.

Yep, I can see the advantage of a 4 piece rod, and after casting the Passport, I can see one in my future.

The casting came back to me pretty quickly... plus I got my little old Thomas & Thomas out and practiced a little bit before I went to the fly shop to try out the new rods... didn't want to embarrass myself. :lol:

The Imperial fit my style nicely... guess I'm a bit more of a power caster.

 

[IdratherbePhishing]

Every rod that I've had more than two piece has casted apart on me.

 

[afishinado]

IdratherbePhishing wrote:
Every rod that I've had more than two piece has casted apart on me.

IRBP,

Rub a little paraffin wax (candle wax) on the male end of all your ferrules. The wax will help hold your rod sections together as well as preventing them from sticking together.

 

[NorthBranch]

Actually, I must confess. I've had two piece rods come apart on me during a trip even with some paraffin on the ferrules.

Sometimes when you get on a great trout stream at the crack of dawn after a couple hours of sleep and a 3 hour drive, and a fine hatch of Hendricksons is eminent that day, after a LONG, LONG, winter... you sometimes tend NOT to pay attention to all the details. Like putting the rod together correctly. :-D :-D :-D

 

[FrequentTyer]

afishinado wrote:

IdratherbePhishing wrote:
Every rod that I've had more than two piece has casted apart on me.

IRBP,

Rub a little paraffin wax (candle wax) on the male end of all your ferrules. The wax will help hold your rod sections together as well as preventing them from sticking together.

I thought that wax was conscidered a bad thing since it will trap dust and other abrasive particles that will ultimately lead to an even looser ferrule. If the ferrules are kept clean, and they are put together and taken apart properly (i.e. not twisted), there really shouldn't be an issue with them coming loose.

 

[afishinado]

FrequentTyer wrote:

afishinado wrote:

IdratherbePhishing wrote:
Every rod that I've had more than two piece has casted apart on me.

IRBP,

Rub a little paraffin wax (candle wax) on the male end of all your ferrules. The wax will help hold your rod sections together as well as preventing them from sticking together.

I thought that wax was conscidered a bad thing since it will trap dust and other abrasive particles that will ultimately lead to an even looser ferrule. If the ferrules are kept clean, and they are put together and taken apart properly (i.e. not twisted), there really shouldn't be an issue with them coming loose.

No one should drag your rod sections through the mud or sand, but I've never seen a rod returned because the ferrules were worn. I've seen many rods returned for repair because of stuck ferrules and ferrules broken when they came apart while casting or fighting a fish. I've used wax for decades and have never had any problems since, with either stuck or loose ferrules.

Finally, the major rod companies like Sage, Orvis and others recommend that paraffin be used on the ferrules. Some rod companies even give a container of wax to customers when they buy a new rod. Check out their sites.

 

[bikerfish]

I've given new life to worn ferrules by brushing a coat of permaflex on the male end, letting it dry, then lightly sanding it till the ferrules fit properly again.
I've had to do this a few times on older glass rods, and they've held up just fine.

 

[dryflyguy]

bikerfish wrote:
I've given new life to worn ferrules by brushing a coat of permaflex on the male end, letting it dry, then lightly sanding it till the ferrules fit properly again.
I've had to do this a few times on older glass rods, and they've held up just fine.

I'll have to give this a try.
I have an old orvis HLS rod that keeps loosening up at the ferrule.
The parrafin and wax coatings didn't help it.

I think permaflex is a rod coating?